So the first thing that we started off on for today's discussion well I guess it's better to start off

with the topic which was the basis of the discussion that would definitely be where they start off

so I can understand. So the topic of the discussion was man being made in the image and

likeness of God so this is something that's talked about in various times in the Bible I don't know

if you've heard of like preachers talk about this but there's a very foundational Bible verse in

genesis 12631 which genesis the first book of the Bible that's when it talks about let there be

light yeah there's a foundational verse which talks about like God creating the heavens and the

earth and the seven days of creation and when he's creating man man meaning mankind not just

men he said let us make them in our image so it's foundational that man was created in God's

image and that is connected to a lot of ethical questions and ethical dilemmas in one of my

classes called character and conscience which I took a a large basis of the class was was the

professor giving us case studies of ethical dilemmas like let's say there's someone in the ICU that

has various health problems they're on breathing tube then and obviously if they were taken off

of a lot of these these health facilitators they would through natural processes die and so like

what one example of a of a case study would be OK would it be ethically OK to take them off of

their breathing tube or to take them off of the ICU or to pull the plug another example of a case

study would be like um through tests um someone is going to give birth to a child who has tons

of different deformities facial deformities in which it's assumed that they wouldn't be treated

properly in the future they have lung deformities so they're going to be on a breathing tube for

their whole life they have heart deformities so they're going to be on a pacemaker all of these

things is it ethically OK to to let's say like abort the baby so that they wouldn't endure the

suffering from living and the foundation of a lot of these questions would be would go back to

the question of the image and likeness of God because the way that our class went about it is that
because we are made in the image and likeness of God all humans that have inherent value

therefore we have the obligation and the duty to preserve human life to the best of our capacity

and to protect human life and to assume that all human life has dignity because we were made in

his image that's sort of the line of logic that's used and so it's like that's why we say that murder

is ethically wrong because all humans have value because humans are made in the image and

likeness of God that's sort of the the way that this this topic has relevance but the question that I

had is that this is this is a sort of a a sort of generally understood principle well

So that's the topic but the reason why I brought this up as a as a as a talking point is that when we

were talking about this in class it sort of reflected a principle which I just generally understood

throughout the course of my Christian learning which is that we are made in the image and

likeness of God there's no debate as to that in the Bible because there's many verses in genesis as

well as throughout the Bible talking about let us make man in our image after our likeness um

God created man in his own image it there's no debate that we were originally created in his

image through Adam and Eve now the question that I had was is this true in today's day and age

are we still reflective of God's image and likeness the reason why I bring that up is I think it's

similar to an analogy which one of my classmates brought up in class which is that let's say that

there was an artist 5000 years ago that created a sculpture of himself that was made in his image

of his likeness it's him in sculpture form now throughout 5000 years this sculpture was just left in

the forest to to to to the elements and over time like let's say the like the the material starts to

chip away and arm falls off because of the rain the dirt the animals walking by and damaging it

and after 5000 years let's say that there's just a toe left of the sculpture and so I'm wondering if

mankind is the same as similar in this way which is that in the beginning man was made after

God's image that's that's nobody's debating that point however I'm I'm asking the question of if
over time over thousands of years that image has become tainted whether that be through time

whether that be through perpetual sin to the point that I wonder if we are still reflective of the

image of God from years and years and years of of deformation or of of being subjected to our

own shortcomings which have drawn us away from the image of God does that make sense

Another reason why I wonder if we are made in the image and likeness of God now is certain

cases like horrible criminals who have who have done atrocious deeds like for example Ted

Bundy Ted Bundy is someone who is psychologically impaired in the sense that he's

psychopathic and sociopathic in the sense that he he it's not that he doesn't know right I'm wrong

but in the context which we care about he does not think that the manipulation and the murder of

innocent people is wrong and so and in sport and in and even for fun he's killing dozens of

people and so the question in my mind is that can you say that someone like that someone that

has a deeply twisted idea of right and wrong can you say that that person is made in the image

and likeness of the of the loving and merciful God which we worship another thing which I think

of is that overtime like another thing which I think of is civilizations like Sodom and Gomorrah

so Sodom and Gomorrah are places in the Bible which are depicted in the Old Testament which

are civilizations which are renowned for sin the renowned for doing things of of like horrible

deeds like child sacrifice um rampa prostitution and the streets murder any any bad thing that

you can think of is is very commonplace in places like that and that has been a a product of

generations of of people being born into and practicing horrible deeds it's sort of like a if you like

a family line of people committing bad things like a family line of murders a family line of of

thieves and can you say that and and that was through thousands and thousands of years of

development and generational development so can you say that those civilizations like that are

reflective of God's image and originally I thought not and that's why I brought up this topic of
debate uh another reason why and this goes back to why this topic is important is because it

connects back to the foundation for human value and dignity which is that like as as I stated

before a foundation of almost all ethical dilemmas is the question of does human life have value

and the problem for me is OK let's say we come to the conclusion that not all humans are made

in the image and likeness of God then do not all humans have value and so then you would say

like ohh a deformed child do they not have value because they're not made in the image and

likeness of God or does someone who has committed murder have they foregone all of their

value and therefore we can kill them uh and then the and then the list goes on of the of the

implications of saying that not all all humans are made and are not all humans are made in the

image and likeness of God and therefore not all humans have value and so that's why i brought

up this

So the answer that came alive and I came to as to the question of if we're made in the image and

likeness of God is that number one it doesn't matter too much the reason why it doesn't matter

too much is that it shouldn't be used as the basis for determining human life and value what we

think should determine the fact that all humans have inherent value which is something that we

believe is true still is not that we're made in the image and likeness of God because we concede

that the image has been tainted over time and there's verses in the Bible which we have in our

notes page that that reflect that fact which is that we were made in the in the likeness of God we

became that there's a verse talking about man was made upright but was sort of tainted by his

atrocities so we were made in his image we were tainted but through Christ we can achieve a life

which is reflective of his image so rather than than basing our value on the fact that we are in his

image we should base our value on the fact that God said that we have value so it doesn't matter
that we are in his image or we live in his image or we act nicely or we act wrongly that's not

what gives us value but rather that the creator of the universe said that we have value. Case in

point the reason why that that's so important is because God is the standard and sets the standard

for what is valuable given that he is the the arbiter of all of the things which happen in his

creation he's the one that created everything therefore because he said that we have value what

logically follows is that we have value #2 is the way we know that we have value is that is

through the being of Jesus the creator of the universe God humbled himself to become a man

limiting his power and endured one of the most painful deaths in human history so that we may

not have to die in the same way and that is a that is a blatant statement that God has established

our worth because he died for every single human past present and future so that we may not

have to go to hell for our wrongdoings and that is that establishes that we have value and

therefore we don't have to rely on the fact that ohh are we made in the image and likeness of God

uh is this something that we lose is this something that we that we already have but we need to

live up to that doesn't matter as much what matters is that's not the basis for human value what is

the basis is that God said we have value and lived it out by dying for us and therefore it's not a

bad thing to or that's the that's the justification for us saying that it doesn't matter as much if we

are made in his image and like this

Another thing that we talked about is it seems as though it is the case that we have lost the image

and likeness of God or not that we lost it but that we our image is tainted so it's sort of similar to

the sculpture analogy which I talked about before one of the verses which talks about it is is

ephesians 420 through 24 it reads but that is not the way you learned Christ assuming that you

have heard about him and were taught in him as the truth is in Jesus to put off your old self

which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires and to be
renewed in the spirit of your minds and to put on the new self created after the likeness of God in

true righteousness and holiness and that is what this verse is sort of saying it seems as though it's

it's supporting the fact that again although there's many verses saying that we were made in the

likeness of God through corruption of sin we have adopted a self which the verse says is corrupt

and deceitful desires however the beautiful thing is through Christ we are able to put on the

quote UN quote new self created after the likeness of God and true righteousness and holiness

and so although our image was tainted so although the sculpture was weathered and and and and

over time was was the image of it was damaged through christ's sacrifice we are able to to kill

off the old self which is corrupt and adopt the new self in the image of Christ because he one

thing that's also talked about is that he is the perfect example which we should follow towards

and that's perfect because obviously Jesus Christ is God Incarnate therefore he is made in the

perfect image of God and so by copying him we do two things so by copying his actions we

perform actions which are directly reflective of the image and likeness of God #2 is through

following his his example we are subject to the transformation of the Holy Spirit to where our

old self in sin is cast away and we undergo a transformation of the soul which therefore makes

our moral compass and our thoughts and our conscience directed towards God which therefore

makes our actions which I talked about before as well as our thoughts all towards the image and

likeness of God and so through this process and through the sacrifice of Christ we are able to

correct our tainted image and move towards being back in the image and likeness of God