Session 4

TRANSCRIPT Spiritual Healing Journey January 21, 2024

Table of Contents
Begin Meditation................................................................................................................................. 1

End Meditation..................................................................................................................................... 1

The Healing Ecosystem..................................................................................................................... 2

Using Spirituality as a Resource..................................................................................................... 4

Attuning to the Environment of Healing....................................................................................... 6

Connecting to Ancestors................................................................................................................... 6

Begin Practice...................................................................................................................................... 7

End Practice & Live Process Work................................................................................................ 13

Live Process Reflection.................................................................................................................... 19

Written Questions: Ancestor’s Grief............................................................................................ 20

Live Question...................................................................................................................................... 22

Life Reveals Itself.............................................................................................................................. 24

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 Session 4
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Thomas Hübl: Warm welcome everybody. Today we will deepen our exploration. And let’s,
at the beginning, just for a moment have a short attunement so that we all can
arrive in this space. We all come from different activities, times of day, since we’re
a global community.

Begin Meditation

Let’s take just a moment to see if you give yourself a moment to check in with
yourself and see, okay, how are you doing right now? Can take a screenshot of
your inner state to include your body, your emotions, your mind. And then as you
have a first impression, let your breath be a guide into your body. Every time you
exhale, drop a bit deeper into your body sensations and notice as, is your body
tense, open?

Notice the open, warm areas where you feel more connected, grounded, maybe
some pulsing, streaming. You slow down your exhalations a bit, prolong them
a bit, can help you to switch your nervous system into more relaxation. More
relaxation allows us a deeper sensing. More relaxation allows us more inner
space. It’s easier to reflect, to digest, to integrate, to grow, to learn.

Then for a moment, also notice that which is aware of you feeling yourself. I feel
my body. I’m aware that I feel my body and I notice awareness itself. Not to think
about the awareness, to just notice awareness.

In this reflective space, you can also check ... Like you set the intention and check
in with us as a global community. If we can see each other, how many, many
people sitting around the world centering themselves, tuning in with each other
so that there is a collective presencing, collective attunement.
[00:05:00]

Then slowly take a deeper breath. Bring your awareness back into the space
where you’re sitting, to us.

End Meditation

We will start our exploration today.

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 Session 4
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The Healing Ecosystem

I want to reiterate one thing that Kosha already mentioned. We said, we are
doing this work because something in us wants to heal. I think that’s very
important. And somebody also wrote in the question, okay, how can we support
that self-healing mechanism? And the self-healing mechanism doesn’t need an
explanation how to heal.

It’s like you don’t go to the tree and you tell the tree, okay, you now produce a
branch, and now do five leaves, and then another branch. No, the intelligence of
life, that is millions of years old, knows how to grow and also knows how to heal
itself. But if the tree doesn’t have water, it doesn’t have sunlight, has an obstacle,
a roof that it cannot grow through. So it will hurt its growth. So the environment
is an enabling function.

And I think we need to look at how much we respect that healing is something I
can do in myself. I can heal myself to a certain extent because I can bring more
awareness to my inner processes and I can get to know myself deeper. I can get
to know my resources. I can train regulation. I can do many things to further my
own healing at the same time.

I grew up as a deeply relational being. And often, those relationships were

painful. So part of my healing is relational. And some of us want to heal
themselves entirely by ourselves, and part of it is great. Part of it is already the
trauma because relationships are not so easy, so we try to rely more on ourselves
because that’s what really worked for a long time. So we need both.

I need an enabling environment. And when we relate to each other, when we

create communities of healing, when we create healing spaces, or what I often
call ecosystem healing and then ecosystem trauma understanding, then trauma
doesn’t just live in individuals. It’s, there’s an individual expression and there’s an
individual biographical trauma history, and that exists within an ecosystem. That
is the ecosystem too. It’s not just in the ecosystem, it is the ecosystem.

And when we look at being part of an ecosystem and being the ecosystem, the
difference is there is a subtle separation, as we said already. So enabling the
self-healing mechanism means that I more and more notice how separate I feel
from my roots for example. Ancestral trauma that we’re going to talk about today
more is a separation from the context that I’m coming from. It’s a frozenness in
my roots and my roots are my living nervous system into the ground too. So there

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is like a groundedness that’s missing because there’s an ecosystemic aspect that

is anesthetized, frozen, shut down, absent.

And so reclaiming my individual biography, the narrative of my individual

biography, the narrative of my ancestral biography, including the spiritual hurt. So
what’s the difference? There’s trauma in the body obviously, but spiritual trauma,
spirituality, for many of us, spirituality is the deepest intimacy. So when that gets
hurt, it creates like a cut from the power outlet that drives our life.

[00:10:00]

It creates a dissociation from that power outlet. It feels like I’m not fully sure about
my purpose. I’m not fully sure about the deepest motivation of my life. I’m looking
for it. And so that indicates that I don’t fully feel it, which is okay. And my journey
is to not to try to feel it, to acknowledge that dissociating or absenting, some of
my sense perception was very important. So enabling the self-healing mechanism
is the right environment and is also the precision of relationality in myself that I
become more precise.

For example, if I feel myself and I feel that actually I cannot tell you what I
feel. I feel a bit numb, then going to look for what I feel is not the point, but to
acknowledge and feel deeper into the numbness and say, oh, I’m feeling a place
in myself that is overwhelmed. I can embrace the overwhelm itself. So I feel
that I don’t feel. I don’t try to override it, because often people override that in
themselves and go to look for an emotion.

And often, coaches and therapists do the same. They want the client to feel
something versus, oh, if you don’t feel, I’m fully with you. If you’re overwhelmed,
you have a good reason and I’m bowing down to that reason, and I’m with you.
I don’t need to push you to development. I want to respect the place where not
feeling was the higher choice than feeling, and that creates like a yes. That
creates an opening in many moments.

That’s why also the defense mechanisms are, they are not not ... Sometimes
we say, oh, when something is absent, there’s less light that the body emits.
So there is like a zone of absence. But the absencing, the defense mechanism
is super intelligent. That’s why in a prayer that I often say says, I’m grateful for
what I see, and I’m grateful for what stays hidden because this is thy will and
that’s why I’m here.

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So the absence or the less bright area is not a mistake. Many people say, oh,
that’s worthless, because the aim is to be in the light. No, no, in the part that
is shut down, there is a light in there, but it’s covered. There’s usually absence,
anesthesia, there’s numbing, there’s dissociation. But the dissociation is super
important and intelligent.

So if I think I’m better when I see everything, no, that’s not the point. I am more
precisely attuned and related if I’m respectful of the process that happens, not
the process that comes after, because this after is part of the trauma. When there
is spiritual trauma, then the deep intimacy that we feel with the source, with the
deep communion, with spirit, feels at the distance, feels hurt, feels shut down.
And that leads, of course, to a heaviness because the energy that’s supposed
to make us feel lively and the energized and curious and creative is hurt. The
reconnection allows us to flourish.

Using Spirituality as a Resource

And that’s why also we wanted to look at, okay, how can we use spirituality as
a resource? And why is it so painful if it’s being hurt? Or if spiritual principles
have been kind of distorted and used as a power tool versus just be the principle
that awake souls throughout human history spoke from, not even spoke about,
didn’t speak about it. They spoke from. When the word and the energy is not two,
speaking from.

[00:15:00]

And so when we look at, on the one hand, spiritual trauma creates this, as if the
engine gets partly disengaged and we feel it in our life. And the second part is
that because our spiritual practice gives us access to the field of information.
So there’s our physical existence and there is the existence in as the field of
information that we all radiate our whole information into the space. Everybody.

But of course, because there’s a lot of trauma in the world, there are a lot of
filters. So these filters reduce our capacity to perceive that information. That’s
when people say, oh, my third eye opens up, my heart opens up, my whole
nervous system opens up, and now I see and feel much more than ever before. Or
when we heal something, the world grows. Why?

Because we integrate something. Restoration means I am becoming, not I’m

going back to the state before the trauma. I integrate the trauma and I’m

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becoming actually more wiser and more mature than before. I integrate the
hardship as post-traumatic learning. And that’s amazing.

So there’s an added value. Why? Because I needed spiritual resource to integrate

what was hurt in the first place. Enriched life with consciousness, and that’s
amazing. So, we are making the soil more fertile. Healing means to make the soil
more fertile so that the seeds of the next generations can grow on a more fertile
ground than the one that we found.

That’s sustainability. That’s responsibility, as we said, towards the future, as

we did the meditation with the next generation. We want to invite the souls of
the next generations to land in a more fertile and more generous world than we
found. That’s what the devotion to our spiritual path does.

When our energy system is being hurt, every hurt creates a filter, and I’m looking
through that filter. Many of us are looking at ourselves already through a lens
of what’s missing. That’s a filter. I look at myself. When I look at myself, I’m not
looking with generous eyes. I’m looking at, okay, what’s missing? What’s missing?
What’s not okay? What needs to be improved? And of course there is stuff to
heal, but I’m looking through a prism as if I had sunglasses that already filter a
certain amount of the light.

The way I attune to myself, I explore myself, already doesn’t allow me to see
certain things. The filter system, my trauma, is invisible because it’s a filter on my
perception. If I put, on my camera, a certain color filter, you’ll see me a bit different
than I’m sitting here. So we all walk around with a certain filter. Sometimes it’s
subtle, sometimes it’s very strong, of different layers that reduce the power of
light, of consciousness or awareness, and it creates all kinds of side effects.

Exploring also not only what I find in myself through self-awareness, and also
what I see and feel when I look at you, because what I see and feel when I look
at you is informed by the energy that cannot flow in myself, and it filters you in
me and reduces like a reduction of data. So there’s a data reduced version of you
in me where I carry trauma, where I don’t carry trauma, and my system might be
more open. But where I carry trauma, I cannot really see and feel you.

[00:20:00]

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Attuning to the Environment of Healing

And if you look at good therapy or good coaching, is that the facilitator becomes
exactly the environment that the client never had. That we as communities
become the environment, healing spaces, our environments that generate the
capacity that we’ve not had in order to heal, for example, individual, ancestral
and collective wounds.

So building an environment, when a therapist wants to address a 2-year-old

trauma, then the energy field of the therapist needs to become the environment that
was missing. So the energy field needs to be open and fluid to have the relational
capacity, otherwise we are talking about it versus from. It’s precisely attuned.

The same is true for spiritual trauma. If the spirit is closed, then there is no
help. If the spirit is open, the resonance can start to activate and become the
environment for healing to take place. And that’s all what’s being expressed
when we say we need to walk our talk, only truly embodied integration is the
fertile ground to grow.

And that’s why I said last time, ethics, awareness, and movement. The more
we heal, individually and collectively, we generate more movement, and that
movement is supportive for others to induce more movement in their experience,
where actually, the whole system starts to become more fluid and induces more
and more growth. That’s direct presence and fluidity.

Today we want to—Because when we look at cultures in many places around

the world, many of our ancestors were part of ancestral trauma, and a lot of the
ancestral trauma was connected to spiritual trauma. The colonial wound and
the suppression of Indigenous wisdom is a strong trauma physically, but it’s
also a strong trauma spiritually. And to reclaim the spiritual dimension is part of
activating the full self-healing mechanism. And that’s in other places around the
world similar.

Connecting to Ancestors

And so today we want to look a little bit at the dimension of our ancestors and
look at how we can—I spoke a little bit last time already, that our ancestors are,
of course, our parents, our grandparents, our great-grandparents that we might

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remember or not remember because we never met them, at the same time, we are
made out of our ancestors. Our ancestors sit deeply in our system.

And there is more and more also epigenetic research on how trauma is being
passed on from generation to generation. And also, of course, we also feel that
we inherited a lot of intelligence, we inherited all kinds of resources from our
ancestors. And today we want to go a little bit deeper and explore also, first of all,
ancestral stagnation.

All the relationships in our ancestral tree that are open and fluid, channel data.
So there’s a data connect, there’s a flow, and that flow shows up in our body as
open energy channels. The parts in our ancestors that are either disconnected or
frozen, they show up in our body also as frozen or closed parts.

[00:25:00]

But since our body is not just as it looks like here, looks like a body, but the body
is much more complex than it looks like. So there’s a much more complex inner
information technology working that we have self-awareness. Everything you
and I feel about ourselves, of how we feel ourselves is data flow. Everything we
know about ourselves is data flow. The less data is flowing, the more limited is
what we call the self-awareness. The more open it is, the richer and the more
layers show up in my awareness.

One level of awakening is transcendence, and transcendence, as you said, and

inclusion, create a sense of self that I can witness and is in flow, is integrated.
Sometimes there’s transcendence; I’m awakening from one level of consciousness
that I didn’t see before. Suddenly, I can see it. I’m aware of whatever I’m aware of,
but it doesn’t integrate the trauma that is stuck in there. So I still stay identified
with it. I cannot subject, object transcended fully.

When we look at our ancestors, for some of us, it’s easier to attune to our
ancestors. And when I say attune it means begin to feel when I think of somebody
in the information world, when I set an intention, I connect to my grandmother,
and then I feel the sensations that show up when I do that. And at the beginning,
we will go through a bit of a contemplative practice.

Begin Practice

Now, I want to speak about in the intergenerational trauma work, we are looking
at a sense of self. My nervous system is channeling a lot of data up and down,
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where I feel myself, or sometimes I don’t feel myself so well because I feel very
stressed or disconnected or overwhelmed, then I respect it. What we call the
closest circle of intimacy, self contacts of awareness. And then in my nervous
system, I can tune in with the encoded information of my parents. It’s the first
degree. There’s one conception. My parents, me. From my grandparents, is two
conceptions. And one conception to my parents, second conception to me.

If you want to work with intergenerational information, we need to learn to feel

different degrees of ancestors or ancestry. My parents are one circle of intimacy.
My grandparents, another circle.

So when I set the intention, and intention is like my spine, an intention. And when
I feel into my parents, sometimes it’s hard. If there was trauma between us or
hurt, then it’s harder, then we respect that. We don’t have to override then. That’s
part of our ancestral healing. So when it’s too difficult to attune to a parent or a
grandparent, because there was abuse, or there was a lot of trauma happening,
then I let it.

I don’t need to try harder. I want to look, okay, where can I open up easier? We
often call this the ancestors that are the most collaborative with our healing.
Sometimes we call those the ancestors that we call our gates, because through
those ancestors we get connected to our ancestry.

[00:30:00]

If you want, you can experiment a bit with, okay, I’m looking first at the ancestor
that feels the most easy to contact. Where’s the relationship the most open,
connected? Maybe you looked at relationship wraith a bit And when you, for
example, anybody who got adopted, you first tune in with maybe your adoptive
parents. You feel into the relationship there, and then continue to your biological
parents. And keep it as an exploration, and try to force it.

When you feel yourself, you feel your body first. And then from your body, you
attune to the first circle of ancestry, the second. And you look at, okay, where is
the most collaborative ancestor? The one I feel the closest to, if there is someone
like that. And you stay with that ancestor. Even invite that ancestor closer
internally, and feel how the relationship feels like.

And feel also the resources that that ancestor brings to you. Closeness maybe,
or healing power. Some of our ancestors were interested in healing themselves.

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With some grounded strength, some spiritual strength. Whatever is the resource
you feel you can connect to, or flows between the two of you.

And you can invite this ancestor and say, “okay, do you want to be my ally?” And
my own ancestral healing helped me to open, as it’s appropriate, my ancestral
awareness so that I can learn. That I can heal as it’s appropriate, so that it’s not
too overwhelming. That it’s step by step. I can digest what I open up, and see
what’s the response of that ancestor.

Even if you do it the first time, sometimes you don’t know if you’re imagining
things, or if you’re feeling something, really. Give yourself a little bit, freedom.
Doesn’t need to be judged immediately. It doesn’t need to be right. It’s just
experimenting.

If at the beginning, it feels like it’s hard for you to feel, because you find yourself
thinking all the time, respect that. It’s a practice, and it’s going to grow over time.
So can feel, sometimes we feel at the beginning just numbness. We don’t feel
much. And then that’s what we find when we stay with that. We don’t try to go
beyond it. We say, “Yes, the first sensation I have is a non-sensation. I don’t feel
much.” And once I respect this, then maybe it opens up deeper. I have lots of
sensations, I go with that. I’m approaching it more lovingly, more compassionate,
less judgmental. If judgment comes up, I honor it, and I gently let it go.

[00:35:00]

And you can also check back with your own body. When you tune into this, let’s
say more favorable or “ally” ancestor, what’s the feeling that you get in the body?
What does this resonate in your physical body? What are the sensations?

So for now, you can see if there is maybe a bit of an allyship that you are forming.
And say, “Okay, with your help, I want to, step by step, open my awareness of
my felt ancestral experience.” Because we all can think about our ancestors, and
maybe we have lots of intellectual knowledge, but we are talking about a felt
relationship.

And then, you can also scan a bit your own ancestry, and see how has spirituality
been lived, practiced, suppressed? And again, to take it step by step. Look at,
okay, when I look at the spirituality of my ancestors, what’s there? We don’t
want to look if it was good or bad. We want to just look at, okay, what am I
becoming aware of? And what’s the effect of my ancestor’s spirituality on me, or

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the absence of it? How does this affect you? What is supportive? If it feels like it’s
lacking? What created resistance, or created yearning?

For some of us, the ways it got introduced into spirituality created like a resistance.
And the turning away, it was overwhelming. It was not relational, it was dogmatic,
it was tight. For some of us, the spirituality of our ancestors was truly a support.
Sometimes there was absence. Sometimes it was traumatizing. And sometimes,
the absence thereof created a strong yearning to reconnect in many other ways.
So see, how does your spiritual ancestral make up affect your journey?

[00:40:00]

See how that, what does that teach you? When you look into your context, is
there anything that you’re learning right now by exploring how the spiritual
dimension, faith, spirituality, healing power, Indigenous shamanic backgrounds,
religious backgrounds, secular backgrounds, whatever background? It’s the
impact on you. What does it support in you? Maybe sometimes even through its
absence. How does this affect your own spiritual calling?

Then, gently let the attunement to your ancestors, maybe you also bring some
gratitude to whatever has been shown to you, what you felt or attuned to.
Became aware of, or towards this ally in your ancestry, or maybe multiple allies.
And with that gratitude, to come back to yourself, and check in how you feel now,
physically, emotionally.

And also, look at when you have this more contemplative space, what do you
learn from looking and attuning? So our knowledge is one thing. Embodied
attunement is another thing, deepens our relationship. What did you learn right
now? Were there any insights? Anything you learned about your own spiritual
calling, practice, life?
[00:45:00]

How does a relational spiritual life, like a life where spirituality is lived in a way
that’s being transmitted relationally, affect the next generations? How does life,
when it becomes more dogmatic or more rigid, affect the next generations? What
happens when there’s a lot of trauma or frozenness because the spirituality has
been hurt, suppressed through all kinds of systems? What happens then for the
next generations? And you can, if you want to write something in the chat, like
a reflection, or if you want to write something in your own journal that you don’t
want to forget and come back to.

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When we see, for example, if there was nobody that we could connect to, that we
don’t interpret it as good or bad, we just want to slowly deepen our awareness.
And it doesn’t mean that anything is right or wrong. It means that that’s part of
our exploration. We all learn through bringing awareness, intention, like our real
love for growth into the situation, how we were born into this life. We want to
explore that context, and not too early, have any kind of rational explanation, but
stay more with the exploration.

And also, some people wrote right now that there might be one lineage disdainful
towards religion, the other one very religious. How do these streams meet in
me? And that, instead of that being a limitation or a contradiction, it can also
be something interesting that informs my life. And I’m taking this example, not
because I think whoever wrote this sees it as a contradiction, that we see those
different backgrounds as something that alchemizes itself in me.

Same as biracial or bicultural backgrounds can carry attention, but also, can be
very creative with each other. And so that we look at, “Oh wow, what am I finding
and how does this live in me? How does it create a tension with another lineage
in me? Or how does it create, actually, a creative tension in me?”

Many write like it’s a generous exploration. You want to learn something, not find
out what didn’t work. And sometimes there are painful histories in our ancestry.
We go as much as it’s possible, we don’t need to overload ourselves. Just
activating that process already starts to inform us.

[00:50:00]

You can see in the many, that entries, there’s a lot of interesting experience, and
how rich that exploration is. And there’s that what we also call rooting. We open
our roots through our ancestors. We deepen our roots. That would be, in our work
here called often ancestral grounding, but there’s a personal grounding in my
body. But then there’s a wider circle of grounding, which is ancestral grounding.
And also, harvesting our ancestral spiritual capacity, which by the way, is not
only in people that are overtly spiritual, or were religious.

Sometimes people that don’t, didn’t have a spiritual practice, carry a lot of
spirituality, it’s just named differently. So to see that we begin to maybe dissolve
a bit ideas we carry, our filters that we look through. Some people live a very
spiritual life, even if they wouldn’t call it in any way, in spiritual terms. The way
and their attention to life is like a deep spiritual practice.

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And we also want to respect where we turned away because something felt too
overwhelming, too strong, or too absent. And we actually turned away from spirit
at a certain time, as children, as teenagers, as adults. And that we respect that
movement too. And how non-emergent structures create that movement often,
and we learn from it.

And some people wrote also that some of our ancestors needed to hide
their spirituality. Because it was too dangerous to practice it in the given
circumstances, or even suppress it. And that we are also mindful of that, because
we can be the awareness that also can see that through less judgmental lens,
and create a relationship to the danger, to the suppression, to the dissociation
through trauma from spirituality, and begin to create a new level of consciousness
around it. Yeah.

We also want to see how, for some of our ancestors and maybe also sometimes
for ourselves, the spiritual dimension became the anchor within adverse
environments. Somehow strong sometimes, because the collective situation was
very traumatizing, spirit became like a deep anchor. And so, let all of that be
included. Right.

Yeah. And so, we want to also save the chat, and see our collective fingerprint
basically here, spiritual fingerprint, the community.

Thank you for the rich contributions.

[00:55:00]

And before we go to our live session of today, and afterwards we will do some,
we’ll have some Q&A time again, to look at some of the questions that you wrote
in. We want to feel again a little bit, what’s the affect also when you read a bit in
the chat, and do you feel yourself here? We are connecting to spirit that is flowing
through all of us in the sense of life, in the sense of just life itself is spiritual, a
sense of being alive for many, many, many, many, many generations.

There’s a core of spirit running through all of those generations, and that deeply
connects us. We are all alive because of spirit. We’re all alive because of life. It’s
like the electricity that runs through a cable. When we deal with deeper ancestral
wounds or trauma, also collective trauma, that electricity that runs through the
generations is actually a very powerful resource, and so it’s important to see also,
when we tune in with the more spiritual dimension of our ancestors, how that
feels in your body, how you feel when we explore this as a community. How does

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this feel right now physically, emotionally, mentally, relationally, spiritually, and
also how does this make you feel towards life?

Okay, and then we let them rest for a moment. I think it, as a home practice, will
be good to deepen that exploration and maybe journal a bit about your ancestors.
As you wrote the entries here, they were very deep and descriptive and/or
described a lot of depth of your ancestors and to do it in a way that writing
comes with sensing, because we want to more and more relate in the intellectual
narrative and what we know with emotional and the physical narrative, energetic
narrative of our ancestors.

Trauma creates fragments. Like when you take a newspaper and you cut it into
pieces and you throw them into a room, that’s trauma. When the pieces slowly
come together, you can read the various articles again, and they begin to make
sense, which means sense-making. Cognition, heart, body, context, sense-making.

[01:00:00]

We are all existing in the context of our ancestry here in the context of the
cultures where we come from. We have a physical, emotional, mental and
spiritual narrative, and we’re living in the ecosystem that we are. That’s all the
narrative, not just what I know. When the narrative heals, things begin to make
sense. I can think and feel, and it heals.

We can slowly transition to our live session. We have been invited, again, one
of the community for a bit of a live healing session. Before we do that, I would
love us to create again a space that we as a community attune again to our
exploration here and everybody who is tuning in and presencing the session is
actually contributing to it, to a warm holding space and to see what happens in
you as we go here through a process, what arises in you.

It contains everything from being deeply touched to feeling alienated and heavy
or feeling very interested and seeing a lot of your own aspects. When I get tired,
it doesn’t mean that something is wrong. I just notice, oh, I’m getting tired as I’m
watching if I’m very interested or if I feel a lot of resonance, so then that’s the
process. That’s what it means to hold the space and to learn from the process.

End Practice & Live Process Work

Participant 1: Hi.

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Thomas: Hi. How are you feeling now as you’re here with us?

Participant 1: I start to feel a bit like being held.

Thomas: That’s beautiful. Let’s feel that. Maybe, if this is what you feel at the beginning,
let’s feel how it feels to be a bit held and that, the sensations that tell you I feel a
bit held, that we can focus on that sense. That’s beautiful. That’s how we all, the
community and we here, also create this warm holding space that you can notice.
It’s beautiful.

Participant 1: Yeah. I think I noticed a shift coming to the space when I was alone. I know I’m
not alone, but it’s more like I felt like carrying a lot of pain or burden on myself.

Thomas: How do you feel that burden? How does this show up in you? Is this now there,
too, or you’re feeling this now, too, or did it get less?

Participant 1: Yeah, I think the burden is present as well. I guess it’s like some residues from
what you’ve talked of before I went into this session. When I connect with the
ancestors, I can feel how much pain they went through. My grandmother’s body
is so stiff. I once tried to massage her, but it’s just so stiff and out of shape. When
I touched, she would start to share a little bit of memory about, “Oh, I worked
very, very hard on farming,” so much work or labor and things she remembered. I
don’t really know what’s the whole narrative, but I can still make a bit more sense
about what kind of hard life she had.

[01:05:00]

My mom comes from that. I think she felt very unloved. Being a girl in a family,
she was not favored. That’s a gender thing. Also, just in both of them, I feel
this huge amount of hunger, or some kind of hunger, or lack, or always being
in a survival mode like, “Ah, there’s not enough food. There is another kind of
accident.” I know my grandfather lived through the Sino-Japanese War. I don’t
really know what the whole narrative is, but I can feel that very active sense of
being alert about danger.

Thomas: That’s already very reflected that you can feel all of that and that you can also
see that because, when I listen to you, I also feel like as if you are in a way
holding a space also for your grandmother’s life. You can reflect on it and feel it
a bit. You can feel your mother’s life. One thing that you said is also the hunger
that you feel, there’s some kind of chronic hunger, and maybe that’s an important
word also.

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Participant 1: Yeah, I feel a lot. I guess that’s why it feels very hard to carry along. I guess
there was also a spiritual hollowing out. I don’t really know what’s the reason,
but I felt like, if I think about the history of China, we have this process where the
traditional cultural roots were being uprooted and we tried to throw that all away
to become modernized.

My mother grew up with no religion, no “what’s the purpose of life”, no idea. My

grandmother was so-called superstitious. She would worship ancestors, but I can
feel like the line with heaven and earth, which I actually have it with me in a very
lucky way, but I can feel her disconnection with that.

I got that from, I don’t know, many mysterious forces that just come my way.
When you say I connect with ancestors, when I connect with these living people,
it feels a lot of pain. If I connect with other forces, I don’t know who they are, but I
know they are present, they have a lot of ancient wisdom, that part feels like also
very present. Also, I became connected with the Indigenous people. I don’t know if
that’s even a right way to connect, but I just intuitively feel they are my ancestors,
too, because I believe, my ancestors thousands of years ago, they have lived in
that way as well.

Thomas: That’s right. Maybe let’s pause a moment because you said so many important
things. You said, “I can feel heaven and earth in me,” so that you feel like a
connection, obviously. There’s something accessible to you when you describe
it, and I can also feel it a bit when you say it. There’s something beautiful about
that connection. You’re also saying that, or at least that’s what I heard, I heard
that even though your ancestors needed to disconnect to a certain way and had
painful lives, there’s a deeper ancient presence that you feel that is part of your
cultural richness that is there anyway.

I think that’s a very powerful description, that you actually plugged into
something deeper than the trauma that your closer ancestors experienced.
There’s something else present, too. I think you described something very
powerful right now when you speak about that connection that you feel. Can you
describe how that feels in you?

[01:10:00]

Participant 1: That’s like the most loving presence I felt in my whole life. It’s always there when
I feel very sad. I’m not really familiar with how it feels to be loved by a human.
Like, say, my mom, I know she loved me very much, but she grew up in, what’s the
word, scarcity, so it’s like feeling from a place of lack. Later, I find love from that
heaven on earth.
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 Session 4
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I connect with that when I practice Tai Chi where I stand and meditate and I feel
the, I don’t know what’s the word, the sky and the ground below me is holding
me and, also, now, often, when I sit and meditate, some kind of very intimate,
sweet presence showing me the mystery of life. Sometimes, I also get, receiving
inspirations about, oh, I know what that story in the Bible mean exactly or things
like that.

Thomas: That’s very touching what you just said. What touches, first of all, I can feel it
when you speak about it. What you said is very powerful, that the sky above
and the ground below are holding me. There’s something about this flow and
being held or, the loving, it’s the most loving presence I know. Also, what you
said, that there’s inspiration. I’m just feeding back some of the things that you
said because they’re very beautiful that sometimes we understand parts that are
written in the Bible because of the inspiration of that part. It’s a very powerful
things you’re saying.

Let’s feel that a bit together. It gives also everybody in the community a chance to
feel that or to feel what’s the resonance in us. When you speak, I feel a resonance
of your words. We can all feel with you what that means for us and how we feel
held or how we know this moment or not so we can all tune in with this. That’s
beautiful. How do you feel now when we’re sitting here and you’re speaking from
that place?

Participant 1: I start to breathe deeper and let that breathe me. A lot of tensions are present,
but I also want to rest.

[01:15:00]

Thomas: Yeah. That’s beautiful. Let’s feel a bit that the breath is getting deeper and some
of the stress. It’s also relaxing and it gives more space to what you shared with
us. You also shared with us something that is very important for our spiritual
healing journey. It’s beautiful what you said that, even if my closer ancestors have
been hurt or the political situation or the situation around wars is over, painful, or
hunger, but that the deeper spiritual roots of the culture are anyway present.

They transcend some of that intergenerational pain, and so there’s a deeper lake
or a deeper quality of spirit that is present especially also because you’re coming
from a culture with a very rich spiritual background of thousands of years of
practice. There’s a beauty to that. When you share all of that here with me, do
you have a sense that you said it to me? I mean, intellectually, you know that you
said it to me, but do you feel more like in yourself or you feel that you shared that

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with me and that it touches me, what you’re saying? How is your experience of
our relationship?

Participant 1: I can feel it. It’s more like naturally unfolding. I gradually get opportunities to
learn about my own culture. When I feel that, I can feel it’s like a emerging
journey. Some of it feel vague, but I know a lot more than before. I remember
listening to someone in China interviewed you about the Tao Te Ching, and it was
a conversation about the dove. I don’t know how things all mysteriously connect,
but I feel like I know there is a place we meet, like we truly have meet.

Thomas: That’s beautiful. Let’s feel this, the place that you just said. There is a place where
we truly meet and that we let that sentence—There is something that transcends
some of the forms that we are used to that might be different than in space and
time, but there’s something that’s deeper than that. That’s a beautiful way of
saying there is a place where we truly meet. Yeah.

Is there more that you would love to share with us that’s important to you? How
do you feel when we opened the space, because you opened a lovely space for
us? Is there more you want to say?

Participant 1: Yeah. Just now I suddenly feel like many allies in that space. A lot of them
are actually not Chinese at all. Since we connect through those ancestral
legacies, I feel like having many friends and allies. A lot of them grew up in a
less traumatized place, and they help me to heal by sharing the love they have,
something like that.

[01:20:00]

Thomas: That’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. Yeah, let’s also give that a bit of a space. You
said that, first of all, how we are allies and how we support each other to grow,
and also the love that you mentioned through their love and that there is a part of
you that receives or feels that love, and that we let that nourish you. I think that’s
a beautiful thing you just said, that the love can nourish you and it helps you to
heal, and it can maybe even ripple out to your ancestors, that got less of that
physical love or relational love and it can touch you and them.

Participant 1: I feel like I have problem with that. Actually, one of the questions I have now is I
often feel like I can tap into that love field, but it’s usually a place. Sometimes it’s
a place without form, I mean, especially like the human form. I feel like there is
another part of me, which is a hungry child, but I can feel that, where I’m living in
the US, I notice I have this desire like I want to be adopted.

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Thomas: What would that fulfill?

Participant 1: Well, fulfill, I guess, a feeling of I grew up, but I felt like I was, what’s the word,
like mal-nutritious. Sometimes, when I met people who can really listen, that
hunger will emerge and I just keep talking like just goes, or the desire like I just
want to be adopted and I almost want to regrow, something like that, and then I’ll
be like, “What to do with that part?”

Thomas: Yeah, what I hear, and you’re saying something, when I listen to you, I hear “I
want to be nourished. I want to receive and be nourished. I want to be held. I
want to feel that love that nourishes me.” I think, if we can hear that, then we can
look at first of all to just that both of us are sharing this right now. You told me
about it and I hear it, and we can feel it between us, that that’s a wish.

Because sometimes, as grown-ups, we judge that wish and we kind of try not
to have it, and that maybe for now we can just allow that that wish is there and,
because that wish is there, it can generate opportunities for you like this one right
now or others where you feel nourished because you want to feel nourished. The
wish is important. It’s like when you ask for something and then you get it, if you
don’t ask you don’t get it.

So you said, “I need to be nourished. I felt that something was missing for me
in my childhood, and my parents could give me some things but couldn’t give
me others. And that’s okay because of their story.” But that you have that wish
and you expressed it. And if we can let that wish just be and we don’t suppress
it, we don’t put it in a corner, we can just let it be, and that opens doors to be
nourished. And then you can also look in your life, what kind of, for example,
social environment do you need that can support this part in you? What do you
need to grow your own nourishment until you feel you have enough nutrients? You
know? Yeah.

[01:25:00]

How does that feel when we allow that wish to be there? How do you feel now?

Participant 1: Even a bit more relaxed.

Thomas: Even a bit more relaxed now. All right. Yeah, because it’s true. And because it’s
true and it’s being received it feels even to me like a little bit of joy that’s being
seen, it also generates some joy. And I think that’s good.

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Participant 1: Yeah. I guess I have these pictures in my head like... I try to go dance quite a lot
to get touched, be touched. I often find that space very safe and holding, so the
childish part of me will jump out and...

Thomas: Right. And it’s beautiful, I think it’s very beautiful that you can say that. Because I
don’t find it’s a mute voice in you, it’s a voice that’s speaking. Which means when
the voice is mute it cannot attract the support. When the voice can speak it can
attract the qualities into our life that we need to heal. And you said it here, you
said what you need. So that’s a good sign.

That means that you can attract into your life what you need. And you also made
it, we had so many applications for this session and you attracted, this moment,
also into your life. And I feel it’s important for you to know that the fact that you
can voice it also means that you can attract it into your life. That’s good news.

Do you think that’s good for us today now? Or is there anything missing for you?

Participant 1: No, I’m good. I so enjoyed meeting you in a dove.

Thomas: That’s beautiful, yeah. I also enjoy your sharing, and I enjoy also the deep spiritual
quality you brought into the room through sharing your experience. That’s very
special.

Participant 1: Thank you.

Live Process Reflection

Thomas: Before we continue with our Q&A section, let’s just feel for a moment how our
exploration here lands with you, with everybody else. And whatever it brings
up in you or how it resonates in you, to listen how you feel now. And how the
beauty of a community of healing is a community of generosity. It means sharing
something more vulnerable or personal.

It’s generous, listening to somebody that shares something and holding a space
is generous. And that’s exactly the qualities that we need to start to heal our
scarcities. When we have a generous space it helps us to heal the traumas of our
past and bring healing water to the places that really crave for it. So thank you
everybody for holding that space.

[01:30:00]
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 Session 4
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And I think you can also read, in the chat there are many positive affirmations for
your sharing and your courage. Kosha?

Kosha Joubert: Yeah, thank you so much Thomas and [Participant]. It’s just the sweetness that
was brought into the space here, but also this acknowledgement of the deep,
different cultural strands that we bring into the room and how the different
strands actually support each other in our healing process, was very touching. So
thank you both.

And right now we still have time at least for one or two live questions. So if you
would like to ask your question live to Thomas, please remember to submit your
question first via the Q&A button at the bottom of your Zoom window. And after
you’ve submitted your question via the Q&A button, you can then raise your hand
by clicking on the raise hand button.

Written Questions: Ancestor’s Grief

And we’ll bring two written-in questions first, that in a way connect, also.
We heard from many people in the chat just the beauty, the nourishment of
connecting to ancestry, but also many voices saying that it’s not so easy, that it’s
painful. And [Participant] wrote, “How do we proceed when the ancestry is so
painful?” In her case, Holocaust survivors, “And it’s too much in the body?”

And also [Participant] writes, “I also connect my ancestors’ grief and rage due
to all that was stolen from them through colonization. How can I go about
developing resiliency when I experience daily a toxicity as an Afro-Indigenous
person in a white-dominant society? And I feel I am channeling not just my own
trauma, but the trauma of my ancestors too.”

So Thomas, just to speak maybe to a combination of those two.

Thomas: Yeah, there are different levels. One is obviously that ... I think there are three
points. One is the personal one, that when there is stronger trauma in our
ancestry we need to have a modulated or a pendulum approach so that we can
touch it. We can go back to our resources, resource ourselves, look at...

Okay, and even make it more clear to myself. So what are my resources? What
resources means is our relationships in my life. This may be my body awareness,
my meditation, my spiritual practice, whatever it is, music, nature, whatever.

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 Session 4
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And so I begin to develop a process that helps me to touch things deeper, learn
something, feel it, resource myself, maybe journal about it, create some more
awareness as I look at it, explore my inner experience, resource myself, share with
some people ... So that I develop a process where I can generate more fluidity
around the stagnation.

I don’t get stuck in the stagnation and say, “Oh, it’s just heavy.” I learn to create
some more movement around it and begin to melt step by step. So because some
people go into some—But then we are stuck and we are drowning in the difficult
sensations. And there, that’s not helpful because there is no movement. It doesn’t
generate any movement.

So we want to look at how to create more fluidity that is resourced enough to

step by step melt and use maybe different modalities. This can be art, this can
be writing, this can be dancing, this can be contemplation, going deeper, feeling,
coming back, sharing. And we create more fluidity around the process work, so
that we can melt it layer by layer and not just get stuck in the stagnation.

[01:35:00]

And that’s why the second step is also to look, how can I create myself an
ecosystem where there are at least a few people in my life where I can share
deeper, and where I feel you and I feel you feeling me is being practiced. Within
that space, we go deeper. So I don’t do it just on my own, I can do it on my
own with certain practices and then I create the environment that I need. So an
ecosystem.

And then of course, especially through the question around racism, we are all
called to be, to step up and do whatever we can to stop the re-traumatization
that’s going on in the world right now. And in our communities, wherever we live,
that we are all called to say—In order to create the healing environment we also
need to all step up and say, “How can we stop that re-traumatizing dynamic?”
And we all are resources for that step.

So there’s something we can do in the trauma healing work, but there’s also
something we have to do in order to stop injustice, inequality, racism, and really
use our power to do that. And that it needs both approaches, not just one or the
other. I think we need to combine that, and I think that’s also a call for everybody
here to say, “What am I doing and how do I engage, and what can I maybe give
more in order to make that happen?”

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 Session 4
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Live Question

Participant 2: Hi, Thomas.

Thomas: Hey.

Participant 2: Thank you for taking my question.

Thomas: Yes.

Participant 2: Yeah, great. This is something that was bubbling in me, especially in the affinity
groups in the mentor session, exploring my ancestors and their religious tradition
and their spiritual tradition. And so I have ancestors who are very connected to
Roman Catholicism and kind of their Christian faith. And what I find from that
when I connect to the resource of it is sort of the light and this kind of higher
resource, how our last sharer talked about the heaven, connecting to the heaven,
but that the earth is just blank. And the roots in that kind of religious tradition are
kind of like—Yeah, I just don’t feel anything there and it’s hard for me to connect
to that resource in my body. Like, I can kind of feel it above me but...

And what our reflection today brought me towards was just the story of the
conversion of my ancestors. Going back to ancestors, my ancestors are Polish.
So I’m thinking about before conversion where there was kind of this Indigenous
tradition. Feels sensitive, ‘cause I know some of the history of just the violence
involved in that conversion. Like ancestral trees, I know the oak tree was big in
the Slavic tradition and that people converted by cutting down the tree.

There was sort of this forced distancing from the ancestral, the earth connection.
And so I guess that’s my question, is how to reconcile that. I feel both, I feel the
longing for the earth and the yearning for that connection. But I also feel the
resource that came post-conversion, how to bring those together in my own
experience. I guess that’s my question.

Thomas: Yeah, that’s beautiful. First of all, it’s lovely to hear your passion, because when
you speak what I listen to is your passion and also that there is a deep calling
in you to do that. And that I feel very strongly when you speak. That you allow
the contradiction of the light resource that you feel ... And first the absence. So
when there is absence, we don’t want to override the absence. We want to say,
“Oh, when I focus on the body, first of all I don’t feel much.” And then we can say,

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“Okay, I don’t feel much but I feel that I don’t feel, like I’m aware of the absence,
and that the absence of my body sensations is something.” That’s not nothing, it’s
the absence.

[01:40:00]

Absence always is something, it’s absencing, otherwise there naturally would be

sensations. If life’s connected there are sensations. If we feel a bit disconnected
it’s not that there is nothing, there is absence. Absence is an active process. So
when we needed, or our ancestors needed, to shut down a lot of pain, as you
described before, then of course there will be a layer of absence, because that’s
a mechanism to protect ourselves. And so by allowing that and not forcing
myself, “Okay, how can I feel deeper,” but to allow that can help me to begin to
feel more again.

And the other thing is you’re describing something very important. You’re saying
embodied spirituality is very important, and only when we want to embody our
path—We have to meet the difficulties of the past, but that also brings literally
heaven and earth together. So because often they’re split, it seems like two. And
when I listen to you, I feel a lot of motivation. And that motivation, I think, is the
engine of you looking deeper and deeper. And you will become the answer. It’s
not just one short process, your life, path of your life brings those together.

You are the one that becomes the answer to that question. And everybody here—
Because our spiritual journey is that we often start off with some questions that
we have in life. It’s not just simple, like life questions. And when I listen to you I
feel the energy of turning the two-ness into something unified. So you, through
your life, you will become the answer to how to integrate the light and the deep
wisdom of the earth. And to heal the trauma of this wound, the spiritual wound
that we have in so many places around the world, through conversions and the
trauma that has been inflicted through religious wars. And yeah.

Participant 2: Yeah, I think what touches me as you share is just an invitation of patience on
the journey. A sense of like, “Okay, I don’t need to figure it out all right now, I don’t
need to release everything right now. I just like ... What’s the next step?” And I
have a lot of space. I felt that as you were sharing that, that I have a lot of space
to take those steps. Thank you.

Thomas: Exactly. You have a lot of space. And when I listen to you I feel a lot of drive.
You have a drive that reaches me, and I trust it. When you speak, for me, this is
trustworthy. I feel a lot of enthusiasm, I feel your wish to explore. And I think if
you let that guide you you will do the right things at the right time that will teach
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 Session 4
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you how to unify heaven and earth in you, and how to live in authentic, embodied
spirituality. I know that really brings potential of our light and the higher realms
into how we live our life together. Yeah.

Participant 2: Yeah, thank you, Thomas.

Thomas: Yeah.

Participant 2: It’s great. Yeah, just that I appreciate the community too. I feel the field holding
us. That’s all.

Life Reveals Itself

Thomas: Again, thank you for holding the space here also for the live questions and the live
process. I think that’s a kind of a we capacity, like collective presencing I think is
one of the healing tools of our time and the next time to come, to create healing
ecosystems. And I think that whenever somebody shares something and we can
listen through our attunement, we will see that everybody who shares something
holds the seed for the learning for many other people too.

It’s just a matter of listening. And that’s also a bit what—Devotion is the capacity
to bow down and to let my spiritual impulse guide me. So it means that I need
to have some inner spiritual calling that I devote to a constant learning. And
everybody who speaks or everybody in life that we meet is part of the book of life.
And when we are attuned, we are actually studying the book of life directly.

[01:45:00]

So when I feel [Participant] or when I feel anybody else, I’m always learning
because of the attunement. The energy field, the information always teaches
something. And if I have the capacity to listen to that, and it’s not just, “Oh, I’m
listening to another person,” I’m actually listening to a very important process
that informs, that lives also in myself somewhere.

Some of them are more resonant, some of them are less resonant. And so living
that life of—Because sometimes our fear and our hyper-autonomy doesn’t allow
us to devote ourselves to life. But devotion is a very deep aspect of prayer, and
it’s connected to the principle of beauty, the true, the good and the beautiful.
And that’s why often devotion, it comes in forms of chanting and praying and

© 2024 by Inner Science LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this recording may be reproduced or transmitted in any form
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 Session 4
Spiritual Healing Journey January 21, 2024
25

devotional practices. But deeper devotion is that I devote myself to the process,
how life reveals itself to me.

Life wants to reveal itself. When we talk about the revelation, we are living in the
revelation. We are living in a life that wants to reveal itself, if I’m willing to listen.
It needs an openness. But then life begins to reveal itself constantly. There are
more and more hints and small details that give, that inspire me, that help me to
understand things deeper, to have more insights.

So I’m living in a revelation, and devotion is the capacity to listen to the revelation
that is anyway happening. Sometimes we are too closed and we don’t listen to
it, so because we are too fixed on our ideas and how it should be. But if I open
myself more life reveals itself all the time. So we are a prayer, in the devotional
life we are a prayer, we’re a living prayer. I think that’s beautiful. And that’s also,
when we go through life with that devotional practice, we’re always a student
of life and we can learn from everybody. That’s amazing. And God reveals itself
through life all the time.

© 2024 by Inner Science LLC. All rights reserved. No part of this recording may be reproduced or transmitted in any form
or by any means, electronic, mechanical, recording, or otherwise, without prior written permission of Inner Science LLC.