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So, I am business development manager at LCI LuckyCore Industries. Previously, I joined

I don't know. Okay, you don't know. Alright, so you guys are working for a project, right? So, I
think you guys should know each other.

So that you can have a better understanding of each other. So, currently I am working as a
business development manager as I previously mentioned. But I think this project is specifically
for sales.

So, I have a bit experience of working in sales as well. Because when you are a management
trainee, you have to work in a rotational based job. Where you have to work in supply chain,
you have to work in sales, you have to work in marketing.

And you get exposure in other departments as well. And then you get a role which you perfectly
fit in. So, that was business development side which is somehow the marketing side.

And LCI is a B2B company. Like business to business company. So, let me tell you a little bit
about it.

If you guys don't know about LCI, Lucky Core Industries. So, it was previously ICI Pakistan. So,
later it was acquisition by Lucky Group.

Which is also called YBG. Yunus Brothers Group. So, now it is part of Lucky Group.

And earlier it was ICI. Now it is called as Lucky Core Industries LCI Pakistan. So, under the
umbrella of YBG, we have around 30 plus companies under the umbrella of YBG.

Which is, you guys might know a little bit about it. You might know about Lucky Motors, Lucky
Cement. You might know about Lucky Core.

You might know about Lucky Motors. Which is mostly in B2C. Like Kia Motors, Pujo, Samsung.

So, these all come under Lucky Group. So, it's a huge conglomerate. One of the biggest
conglomerates in Pakistan.

And that's pretty much it. And one thing which I wanted to tell you is that I am in Industrial
Chemicals. So, Lucky Core Industries has 5 different segments.

One is Pharmaceuticals. Second is Chemicals. Third is Polyester Business.

You might have heard of AstraZeneca. So, we have acquired both of those companies. So, now
they are part of Lucky Core Industries.

I am in Chemicals. So, in Chemicals Division, we have a lot of businesses. One of which is

So, what we do is we sell chemicals to the companies as an RM. RM means Raw Materials. So, as
an RM, we sell chemicals to the companies.

Then they manufacture goods out of that. So, we are catering around 250 plus companies and
30 to 40 plus industries across the region. So, we do export as well.

We do mainly import trading business. Those are different chemicals. So, that's pretty much it.

I have a little bit of an idea about you all. I know a little bit about Khadija. And you all are in your
senior or junior year, right? So, I will tell you according to that.

So, Khadija, can you tell me a little bit about your project? Because I don't have it in my mind
right now. Because you told me a long time ago. What was the project? And what specific
question did you choose? Okay.

So, I will tell you. Basically, it's for our sales course. Fundamentals of Sales is our course.

So, our project is to write a case study. And that case study is on any sales related problem of
any company. Whether it has been resolved or it has not been resolved.

That doesn't matter. But any sales problem that they have experienced. For instance, Ismail
Industries.

Their waterworks company. They ran a campaign with Maira Khan. After that, their demand
surged a lot.

Their inventory levels were not good. So, they had a sales problem like that. Or there was no
SKU.

Or like we talked about. Like you said, sometimes it is in powder form or liquid form. So, there
was a problem with consistency or viscosity.

So, like that. Or like you said, if there are distributors in the middle man. Or you are doing so
many different companies.

So, if there is a problem in distribution. If there is a problem in your inventories. How you guys
solved it or it hasn't been solved yet.
So, we just want to know that problem. That certain problem that you guys faced. Okay.

I think we had a very tight discussion about this. I told you about a problem. Yeah, about the
technical stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. So, are we going to stick to that? Or you guys want to explore a new problem? If
you do have a new problem, we are very willing to explore it.

And if we don't have a new problem. Because we need to write a case study of 30 pages and all.
So, we felt that the resolution part.

Even if we have to put in the teaching notes and everything. Case synopsis and all of those
things. So, I felt that we might have a limited content.

So, if there is a small problem. We can mix both of them. Combine those both things.

Technical stuff and a smaller problem. And work on that maybe. Okay.

Let's start with that problem. Let's discuss it. And after that, let's explore some more challenges.

Because I also have to think about those as well. Because in sales. Whenever you come into
sales.

There are a lot of challenges. But there is no one specific challenge. Either you are doing FMCG
sales.

Or B2C sales. Or B2B sales. So, there are challenges.

We sell chemicals through distribution as well. But mostly our business to business. We are
going from one business to another.

We are directly selling to companies. So, here. I told a problem to Khadija.

Probably, you guys must have discussed it as well. That was the time. This challenge came to
me.

Specifically. Because I have experience of around. Probably 20 days.

Let's say 1 month of sales experience. Not that much. So, it started like this.

When I was going to make the sales. My first sale. These are chemicals.

So, you have to understand the properties. You have to understand. The characteristics of that
very chemical.

Or that very product. You can call it a product. So, in that.

When I went to make the sale. So, a big problem came. When I went to the customer.
And I was like. From TDS and MSDS. I am telling them these things.

And I am telling them from top. And I thought. They will know later.

They will talk about the price. Then I will discuss the supply chain. Because the customer.

By customer I mean the company. We call them customers. So, this problem came from them.

That you. Tell me a little bit. From the safety point of view.

That it absorbs moisture or not. Either it is inflammable or not. For skin.

There is no cancer. There are no carcinogens in it. This type of questions.

And I was like. I don't have an idea about these things. So, a knowledge gap was coming.

Because. So, the problem was coming here. That mostly people in sales.

They come. Business graduates. From like IBA, LUMS.

Or from other universities. We prefer that we have people in sales or marketing. Who studied
business.

But the problem again is coming. That I am not a chemist. I am not a chemical engineer.

So, the problem was obviously there. That I am a chemist. I cannot acquire a degree.

Of again like 4 years. To make sales. So, when I went to my boss.

So, he told me. That we have a training. Where you are taught to read TDS and MSDS.

So, what is TDS and MSDS? Let me tell you. TDS is basically. Technical Data Sheet.

So, whenever you buy a product. Specifically, I am telling you about chemicals. So, it has TDS.

It has a concentration. It has a boiling point. It has a lot of technical properties.

That is told. That its application is done and all that. Then there is MSDS.

Material Safety Data Sheet. Someone note this. So that if you are writing.

Then it will help you. So, MSDS is a Safety Data Sheet. SDS is MSDS.

So, in that. Just one second. Okay.

So, in MSDS. There is a Safety Data Sheet. That how you have to handle it.

How you have to mix it with other things. Either it is inflammable or not. And other things
related to safety concerns.
Are mentioned in that. So, next time when I went for a sale. Then again a problem was coming.

That when I went to the customer. And he asked me some questions. That this is your specific
product.

If we mix it with this product. Then what will happen to it. If we want to make it low tier.

Then how much concentration we have to use. If we want to make it mid tier. Then how much
concentration we have to use.

Or if we want to make it premium. Then if we do more. Then what will happen to its
functionality.

And I was like. Again, I don't know all these things. So, the problem was coming.

That for a business graduate. To understand all this. And it's not like we have only one product.

We sell around 200 plus products. And to know all this about 200 plus products. And to
understand it.

It's not practically possible for a business graduate. And all his understanding. Okay.

So, again this problem came. And I went and talked to my boss. So, I will down the problem list.

For you guys. Obviously, knowledge gap comes. Okay.

And again, the customer queries. It has a problem. And it also has a credibility issue.

For example, if Burhan is coming. And he is representing LCI. Which is one of the market
leaders.

In Pakistan for chemicals. Right. And he doesn't know things about chemicals.

Right. And he doesn't know about the product he is coming to sell. So, credibility issues come.

Questions start coming about the company. Either it is credible or not. And when I used to get
these questions.

I was always like. Yeah, I will get back to you. I call my technical manager.

I used to ask him. He used to tell me. Then I give response to the company.

So, a delayed response is also coming. Either through email or call or whatever. Right.

In person meetings. So, this issue was also coming there. So, when I went and talked to my
boss.

He said. Understandable. Making sales is a different thing.

Because one customer gives us 10 products. Right. So, for that he said.

That we had identified this problem a long time ago. And for this. My own manager said.

That we have. So, we have. So, let me tell you.

So, we have two types of chemicals. If we categorize it. Then there are two types.

First is general chemicals. Now, general chemicals. And the second is specialty chemicals.

Right. Now, general chemicals are those. Which are used by us.

In a lot of volume. So, its quantity is being used a lot. Right.

For example. One product. Which is boric acid.

Right. Which is used in fertilizer industry. Or steel industry.

And each customer is taking 200-210 from us. So, our monthly sale is almost. Around 1010.

Sales are happening like this. So, those products. Their application.

Right. Their processing. Everything is already established.

That we have to make good fertilizer. We have to make it like this. Which is being used for last
50 years.

And it will come and sell. So, in that. You need people who are good at relationship.

Relationship building. Right. People who are good at making sales.

For example. If a client or customer. Is taking 100 tons from me.

So, how will I convince him to take 120 tons. So, there. More than a technical person.

I will need a business graduate. Right. So, the second category.

Which is. Specialty chemicals. In which mostly additives are used.

Additives and pigments are used. Right. So, in that.

Their concentration. Is being used. Around 0.5%, 1%, 2%.

Like this. For example. If it is a 100% product.

Like 100 grams. If it is a 1 kg product. So, it's a very special chemical.

For example. If you guys have some knowledge about paints industry. Where our chemicals go.
Where mostly additives go. So, you must have seen. If someone has painted at home.

So, some paints are very premium. They are very expensive than normal paints. Right.

So, in that they are expensive. Because special additives are added. Because of which their
prices are expensive.

So, in that. When you are making a new product. Right.

So, you need that person. Who can answer all the questions. All the queries.

Of the customer. For example. There is one paint.

Basic paint. In that. How much percentage additive you have to add.

With which thing you have to add that additive. How it has to be done. So, all these things.

When you are going to pitch your product. You guys have. In our general chemicals.

Which is going on in our system. The sales people of general chemicals. Right.

The sales person. They are mostly. Almost all.

They are business graduates. Who have to do sales of general chemicals. And most of our CM.

The contribution margin. Is coming from general chemicals. For example.

If I am telling you. Almost. 100 million CM is made there.

Right. If I am doing my calculations right. CM is contribution margin.

You guys have an idea of that thing. But the specialty chemicals. In that.

Again. We are ordering. A very big company.

It needs a product of 10 kg. 15 kg. 50 kg.

Its pack sizes are different. To pitch. You need to have technical knowledge.

You need to have the understanding. That if we do it this way. Then it will be used for this
application.

The efficiency will increase in this way. The concentration has to be this much. Blah blah blah.

Right. So mostly. In our company.

Chemical engineers. In that. We had a strategy.

We had a recruitment strategy. For specialty chemicals. Who has a chemical engineering
background.

But again. Bringing a chemical engineer. And putting it in sales.

I think it's a huge mistake. For a bigger company. Right.

So for that. From our HR side. That you are a chemical engineer.

Plus he has an MBA. Right. In IBA.

There will be a lot of engineers. They do their masters. In business administration.

Or in any other department. So these things are going on in this way. Or either a person who is.

You know. You know. Who has a background of chemical engineering.

He also has a sales experience. Because there are a lot of companies. Which take direct
chemical engineers.

So if in any company. He has worked in sales for 5-6 years. And he has a background of
chemical engineering.

Those individuals as well. So here it came a little bit. That our recruitment.

The strategy. There was a shift somewhere. Then we have.

Now this thing. If you are also selling general chemicals. So you need to have the basic
understanding.

Right. Somewhere your new products are coming. So understanding about it is also necessary.

So for that. We have a lot of trainings. Okay.

Then we have. You know. Our industrial chemicals.

That is. A trading model. In a trading model.

It happens that. You know. We have some huge.

Chemical giants. As our suppliers. Without any value addition.

Most of the time we do that. We are the exclusive distributed. LCI is basically a distributor.

He has reached Karachi. On the Karachi port. And from there we are supplying in Pakistan.

To our customers. And now one of ours is Evonik. Which is a very big supplier.

Then we have Rio Tinto. Rio Tinto. Okay.

So there are quite a few. Six or seven major players in the world. Whose we.

We are the exclusive distributor. In Pakistan. So now Evonik.

For example their program. Which is running. And I am watching.

They have a training program. Once a month. Where their team.

About their products. Gives you technical knowledge. That how does this product work.

Okay. And all the technical things. They tell you all the things.

About their products. So for them that is mandatory. That you take that training.

And this problem. Is being solved in the same way. Again there is a challenge.

That when a new person comes. Especially a business graduate like me. I am not in sales.

But still. If a person like me comes. Then he will have to face this thing somewhere.

And to resolve that. The few steps we have taken. That I think.

The best possible solution. That we could have. Was training.

Plus the strategy. The recruitment strategy. And the allocation strategy.

We need to shift that. So in this two things came. That you made a sales team of chemical
engineers.

And a sales team of business graduates. Because later it will also happen. That you will get
promotions.

So when you are going to a management. You know manager level. You can understand it
better.

That's what I believe. But there are a lot of chemical engineers. Who have reached big
positions.

In this company. So it was like this. If you have any questions about this.

Please let me know. If not. Then let's move on to some other problems.

Let me think about those. But before that. If you guys have any questions.

Please let me know. No you already answered our questions. You explained it very well.
There will be two or three things. Which I want to ask. The hierarchy of sales.

Please elaborate on that. What kind of hierarchy is this? Who is reporting to whom? Please
explain about that. Alright.

Let me tell you about the hierarchy. Which is our organizational structure. So it starts from CEO.

As you all know. He is the chief executive officer. As I told you in the beginning.

There are five different businesses. Pharma. Chemicals and all.

So then we have five different COOs. Who are like chief operational officers. Pharma will have
one COO.

Chemicals will have one COO. And in the same way there will be five COOs. Who will be
reporting to the CEO.

If you come below that. Then we have the business managers. And you can also call them head
of sales.

Or you can call them business managers. Or you can call them marketing managers. These
three terms are used.

But in our specific industry. In LCI. It is called business manager or head of business.

Alright. So now let's come there. Let me just talk about chemicals.

There is a COO of chemicals. There are two big divisions of chemicals in it. Alright.

One is ours. One is our specialty chemicals. In which your.

Chemicals come. Adhesives come. Textile chemicals come.

So it will have a business head. Alright. Then we have PU chemicals.

Which is called GCPU. So it has a different business head. And again different.

It will have different business segments. So now one COO. Two business heads will report to
one COO.

Now the business head. Who has the reporting. So then we have three different businesses.

In SC. That one is adhesives. One is my business.

Industrial chemicals. And one is textile chemicals. So these three.

Will have three national sales managers. Right. So now these three national sales managers.

Will report to the business head. And the business head. Will report to the COO.
Now below the national sales manager. We have regional sales managers. Alright.

On the basis of that. You will have regional sales managers. And below that.

You will have area sales managers. Alright. Now the area sales managers.

They report to RSM. RSM is regional sales manager. And regional sales manager will report to
NSM.

Alright. And under ASM. They come.

Territory sales managers. They are called TSM. Alright.

They report to RSM. And below that. Our sales team.

Which goes to the market. For our B2C products. They go to our.

They are called salesman. Alright. Either salesman or third party.

So they don't hire LCI. Rather they hire from. Like the third party.

Because. There is a reason for this. Because the policies of the company.

Alright. Your bonuses. And your medical facility.

Or if you get a car from the company. So it is implemented on all the employees. So your sales
person.

Who is a sales order booker. Or a sales person. Or a salesman.

So they can provide all the incentives to the company. Because they are too many. And their
grade wise position is very low.

So we take them through the third party. So the hierarchical structure of our company. Starts
from TSM.

So TSM is the most junior. Person. Most junior officer.

That will be TSM. On TSM you will get ASM. And on ASM you will get RSM.

On RSM you will get NSM. And on NSM you will get business head. And on business head you
will get your.

CO. And on CO you will get CEO. So that's how it goes.

Alright. I have a second question. If there is a follow up of a client.

Or there is a complaint. Who handles that? Is it handled by the CLC partner. Or is it handled by
the technical staff.
Or how is it handled. Alright. There are 2-3 things in this.

That depends on the customer query. If there is a follow up question. What is that question.

Right. If there is a question. That.

For example. There is an order of 10 tonnes. That person is saying.

Make it 11 tonnes. That sales person will do it himself. Right.

Now one more question can come. That there is a problem. For example.

You have ordered a chemical. Titanium dioxide. Let's say.

Right. He will say that there is a caking issue. Caking issue is basically.

That it is made up of lumps. When you take powder. If you have seen it in tanks.

If you have seen it at home. It is made up of lumps. That's a technical problem.

To solve that. That sales person. If he doesn't have that much knowledge.

He will ask the technical staff. To tell him the answer. How can we resolve it.

The third query can be. You are giving a grade of titanium dioxide. Let's say.

900 grade. There are grades with chemicals. He will say.

If you give us a grade of 950. Then the person will come to me. Because I communicate with
suppliers.

Then I will handle that query. So that's. Normal.

I have told you in a general way. How things are handled. But everyone knows that.

There is an option of CCBCC in emails. Forward it to the person. Or keep it in CC.

So that person handles it that way. Any other questions. I think we have 6 minutes left.

For the meeting. If you want to do it again. Then do it.

Just give me a minute. I am just coming back. In a minute.

Guys if this ends. One of us can restart it. I think there are only 1-2 questions left.

If you want to do it again. Anya. If you are asking.

Then it's okay. You can ask your questions. I think we have covered.

Most of it. I just had a question. Regarding the distribution.

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