Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Piping Frequently Asked Questions

By James O. Pennock
Revision #1- 01June 2007
Revision #2 – 30July 2007
Revision #3 – 20 September 2007

This document is a collection of piping design and engineering questions that I have received
over the past few years. Most of the questions came from individuals who are new to the piping field
but who have expressed an honest interest in piping. The answers given here in Part I are my
thoughts, my opinions and my answers. The answers to the questions listed in Part II were supplied by
others. Some may disagree with me on some or all subjects. That is fine; I would welcome any
discussion to these subjects or others on the subject of piping.

Table of Contents

Part I

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Basic Piping Questions Piping Books

Blast Resistant Buildings Piping Costs
Control valves (#1) Piping Estimating (Revision 1)
Control valves (#2) (Revision #2) Piping Estimating, Pipe Stress (Revision #3)
Drawing Sizes Piping Estimating, Pipe Fabrication Spools (Revision #3)
Field Weld and Final Fit Weld (Revision 1) Piping, The Importance of Piping Loops
Fitting to Fitting Piping Maintenance
High Point Vents, Low Point Drains Piping Study (Transposition)
Hydrocarbon Piping Training
Instrument Connection Location Criteria Plot Plans
Line Numbering Plot Plan Documents, Other (Revision #3)
MTO, BOM, BOQ Process Plant vs. Pipeline Piping Engineer
North, Geographic, Plant (Revision #3) Pump Piping I
O-Let fittings Pump Piping II
Painting of Piping Material Pup Piece
Pipe (Definition) Rack Stuffing Drawing
Pipe, How it is Made Safety Valves
Pipe Rack Sizing Shop Drawing Checking
Pipe Routing and Reasons (Revision #3) Socket Weld Pipe Wall Thickness
Pipe Sizes Stub-in
Pipe spacing Support for Piping
Pipe Stress Criteria Transposition (See Piping Study)
Pipe Stress Isometrics Tubing (Definition)
Pipe Support Loads Tubing, Fittings or Bends
Pipers, The Future of Welding of Galvanized Material

Part II
Blast Resistant Buildings (By Others)
Safety Shower & Eye Wash (By Others)
Weld Maps (By Others)

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Part I

Basic Piping Questions

The question:
1) How do I select the pipe material?
2) When do I take branch connection in the side of a line?
3) When do I take branch connection from the top/bottom of a header?
4) When do I use a long stub & short stub?
5) When do I use slip-on flange? a weld neck flange? Or a lap joint flange?
6) Is an eccentric reducer normally only used at pump suction? It is ever used for any other cases? If
so, give the details.

My answer:
I will try to answer your questions however, In order for you to understand my answer to your question
#1; I must ask you to go to the “Tips” section on this website [Link]. There you
will find an article titled “Thoughts on Job Descriptions.” In this article you should read the duties and
responsibilities of both the piping designer and the piping material engineer. There is an organization
chart included in that article that shows the way a typical piping group was organized on a project
where I worked. Everybody had a role to play and it was normally one that they were properly trained
to do. Thus, you must realize that my answer is based on my training, my experience and maybe my
knowledge of a few of the other global engineering companies. There may be companies that do not
operate the same as my company did. You and others will need to make whatever adjustment that is
required.

Now for your questions:

#1 (How do we select the pipe material?) I am not sure what you mean by the term “we” in this
question. You have stated in some of your past posts that you are a piping designer. You are
currently on an assignment as a field engineer. So, “you” as a piping designer (or a field engineer) are
not authorized to “select” the pipe material. The selection of the piping material is the responsibility of
the Lead Piping Material Engineer assigned to the project. The Lead Piping Material Engineer
produces a document called the Piping Material Specifications for the specific project. This document
would normally include some general notes about the piping material and then it would also include
the specific material charts for each “line class” broken down by commodity, pressure, temperature
and metallic (or non-metallic) groupings. The Piping Material Engineer works with the Process
Engineer during the development of the P&ID’s and is (or should be) the only person authorizes to
assign (or select) a line class to a specific line.

#2 (When do we take branch connection in the side of a line?) This is basic piping and is the
responsibility of a piping designer. I would say that to attach a branch to the side of a line would only
be done underground for a gravity drain situation. For normal above ground refinery, power plant or
chemical plant pipe rack pressure piping, I would not do it. The reason I would not do it is that a
branch off the side of a primary line would block the lane (along side that first pipe) where I may want
to run another line in the future.

#3 (When do we take branch connection from the top/bottom of a header?) This is also the piping
designer’s responsibility and should be founded in good training and experience. The answer to this
question follows the first two basic rules of piping. Rule #1 – There is a rule for everything. Rule #2 –
For every rule there will be an exception. So with this in mind let us consider the following. Rule #1 in

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

this case says if the other end of the branch is higher than the header then take the branch from the
top of the header. If the other end of the branch is lower than the header then take the branch from
the bottom of the header. Rule #2 in this case says if the commodity is steam, instrument air or other
commodity that has a lot of condensables or particles then take the branch from the top.

#4 (When do we use a long stub & short stub?) This is not normally the piping designer’s choice. This
is or should be a function of the piping material specifications. The goal is to buy material in bulk and
not have too many options that may increase the project costs.

#5 (When do we use slip-on flange, a weld neck flange or a lap joint flange?) The answer to this
question is mixed. First, the piping material engineer should have made it very clear which type of
flanges are included in (and/or allowed in) each line class specification. The piping material
specifications should not include every flange type in every line class. If lap joint flanges are the
flanges called for by the line class then you may only use lap joint flanges. For other line classes you
would normally use only weld neck flanges for all flange situations for 3” (NPS) and larger. The use of
a slip-on flange could be an exception here only when there is a space limitation problem.

#6 (Is an eccentric reducer normally only used at pump suction?) No! Eccentric reducers are also
used for line size reductions in pipeways in order to keep the bottom of pipe (BOP) the same and in
proper contact with the pipe supports. (It is ever used for any other cases? If so, give the details.)
Yes! I have also used eccentric reducers on both the inlet and outlet piping to some equipment. The
equipment in question had connections that were very close together and the flange sizes for the
equipment nozzles were one or more sizes smaller than the inlet and outlet line sizes and I needed to
use the eccentric reducer to off-set the centerline of the two pipes to provide proper line spacing as
they increased in size.

Blast Resistant Buildings

The question here relates to the placement of Blast proof buildings in process areas.

My answer:
This is just my opinion. There is no such thing as a "Blast Proof" building.
There are some "Blast Resistant" buildings; however, I think "Blast Resistance" is a relative
term. You could bury the building under ground and a Bunker Buster would still spoil your whole day.
The BP oil company found out that it is not a smart idea to place temporary buildings in an operating
refinery during maintenance as offices, permit shacks or contractor conference rooms.
Keep occupied buildings out of operation units.
See more on this subject in Part II.

Control Valve (#1)

The question here was “What is the purpose of a control valve?

My answer:
The purpose of a "Control" valve is to control. It might control flow, level, pressure or
temperature depending on the purpose of loop it is installed in. The valve itself is normally a "globe"
type valve body but with an air or electro-pneumatic operator. This operator is controlled through a
loop that includes a primary sensor and the control logic.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The normal globe type body control valve will be a single of double port configuration with a sliding
"can" type plug with holes or tapered opening to allow fluid or gasses through.

Control Valve (#2)

The question here was: “I am Student of Final Year Mechanical. My Question is: What is the
application of a control valve? And what are the main types and parts?
To: "Student of Final Year Mechanical"

You have received a lot of responses to your question and some of them even give some
good information that is partial answers.
I have over forty-five years in the process plant engineering and design field. I will try to give you
some of what I learned about "control Valves." By process plants I am talking about refineries,
chemical plants, and petrochemical plants, and power plants, food processing plants, along with
plants for the making of soap, paper, steel, aluminum and glass.

A Control Valve is normally only one specific device in a "loop" (system) that controls a
parameter affecting a process. There are four main parameters and a few minor parameters. The four
main parameters are: Flow, Level, Pressure and Temperature. These four make up (maybe) 95% of
the control parameters in any process plant. The other or minor parameters include: weight,
thickness, humidity, density, Ph, color and viscosity to name just a few.

A control Loop (system) will normally be made up of a sensor device (a) to read the desired
control point, then a transmitter (b) to send data, then a control board unit to display(c) and or record
the data (d), then a set point controller (e) with a relay followed by the control valve (f) itself.

So let's say we are interested in the level of liquid in a specific tank when we are filling that
tank. We would need some type of device (a) to read the level in the tank. Then we would need a
transmitter (b) to send the level data to the control board. On the control board we would need a
display gage(c) to indicate the current level. Then we would need a recorder (d) to record the level.
Then we need to have a set point controller (e) because sometimes the process requires changes to
the primary level. When the correct level reaches the "set point' then a signal is sent to the control
valve actuator to close the valve (f).

In the second paragraph I said "normally" when defining a control system. The exception is the
"Self Contained Pressure Controllers." These devices are a control valve that does not have the type
of "Loop" described in the previous paragraph. They are in fact self-contained. They come in two
types. One is made to control the pressure up-stream of the valve. The other is made to control the
pressure downstream of the valve.

Control Valves come in many different "body" types and configurations and, as has been
noted by others, can have different types of actuators. The most common body type is the "Globe"
type body. There are also variations in the globe type body. There are single seat and double seated
globe type bodies. There are also straight pattern bodies and angle pattern body control valves. Other
valve types can be fitted with an actuator and thus become a control valve. These include the
Butterfly valve, the Needle valve and the Diaphragm valve.

The "Actuator" is the part that operates the valve. Actuators might be pneumatic, electric
solenoid, electric motor or hydraulic.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Drawing size information

The question here was “Is there a standard size for engineering drawings and if so what are they?

My answer:
Yes there are standard sizes for engineering drawings. In the United States they are as follows:
Source: “Engineering Drawing”
By Thomas E. French & Charles J. Vierck
“The recommended sizes shown in the accompanying tables are based on multiples of 8 ½” x
11” to permit the (folding and) filing of prints in a standard letter file.”
Drafting Sheet Sizes
A = 8 1/2” x 11”
B = 11” x 17”
C = 17” x 22”
D = 22” x 34”
E = 34” x 44”
F = 28” x 40” (1)
(1) Not a multiple of the basic size. “F” size is to be used only when the width of the E size is
not adaptable.

Source: “Engineering Design Graphics” AutoCAD Release 12, English Edition

By James H. Earle
Drafting Sheet Sizes
A = 11” x 8 1/2”
B = 17” x 22”
C = 22” x 17”
D = 34” x 22”
E = 44” x 34”
(No “F” size listed)

Source: “Technical Drawing”

By Frederick E Giesecke, Alva Mitchell & Henry C. Spencer
“The use of the basic sheet size, 8 ½ x 11 and its multiple, permits for the filing of small
tracings and folded prints in standard letter files.”
Drafting Sheet Sizes
A = 8 1/2” x 11”
B = 11” x 17”
C = 17” x 22”
D = 22” x 34”
E = 34” x 44”
(No “F” size listed)

Note: With only one exception this agrees with my experience at Fluor. The exception is the “F” size.
We used a size of 24” or 30” wide x (as long as required) and called them “R” size (R = Roll).

Field Weld and Final Fit Weld (Revision 1)

The question here: “Hi, I have been working for almost 12 years in design office of three
companies. During my design experience I have not gotten any chance to have construction
experience. Because of this I have a lack of knowledge regarding field welds and fit field welds.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Generally we mark field weld and fit field weld on the IFC (Issued For Construction) isometric while
considering container size 40'x8'x8' for size 2" and above and for below 1 .5" we follow 20'x8'x8'.
Still I am not confident with what we marked.
Can somebody focus on this more like a rule of thumb?

My answer:
Based on what you described, you are doing it (field welds and fit field welds) just right.
I am not sure what your question is.
Are you asking about the "box" sizes you listed? Or Are you asking why are there field welds and fit
field welds?

The box sizes are determined by a number of reasons:

1. shipping size. The 8' x 8' x 40' is the largest size normally allowed for over the highway truck that
would carry prefabricated piping.
2. The 8' x 8' x 40' results in maximizing the number of less expensive shop welds and reduces the
number of more expensive field welds
3. The 8' x 8' x 40' for the larger size piping is because larger piping is more stable for lifting without
bending when handled during a crane lift for installation.
4. The 8' x 8' x 20' for the smaller size piping is because the small piping is less stable for lifting and
prone to bending when handled during a crane lift for installation.

Why are there Field welds (FW) and why are there fit field welds (FFW)
FW = Piping is normally prefabricated in a pipe fabrication shop that is remote from the job site.
Remote is a relative term, the shop may be located 10 miles or 10,000 miles away. The FW is a
standard weld to be made in the field for the purpose of installation no extra pipe is included by the
shop. The FW's in a given line may be made in any order. The piping designer who creates the
isometric is the person who is best able to decide the best location or place to have a field weld.
FFW = The Fit Field Weld (sometimes called Final Fit Weld) is intended to be the last weld made in
the installation of a long or complex line where there is the possibility for a dimensional misfit. For this
purpose, normally the shop in instructed to leave 6'' to 9" extra pipe on one side of the FFW.

Fitting to Fitting

The question here: “Someone told you that you could not weld two fittings together. Is this
true?

My answer:
This is simply a case of bogus logic that seems to come up from time to time, put out mostly
by "inexperienced self appointed experts" from some other discipline.
After more than 45 years in the piping game and some of those years as the Engineering Manager in
a pipe fabrication shop I say:
--You can/may weld an elbow to another elbow WITHOUT a pup piece.
--You can/may "trim" an elbow (to a different angle) and weld it to another elbow WITHOUT a pup
piece.
--There is nothing in the B31 codes that says otherwise.

High Point Vents and Low point Drains

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The question here is: “High point vents and low point drains, what they are? Why do we have
them? These are both very good questions. So let’s us take a look at some answers to these
questions.

My answer:
First you might ask if there are there other types of vents. Yes, there are other types of vents.
And by association there are also other types of drains besides the Low Point Drain. There are the
Process vents and there are the Process drains. The process vent and process drain is provided for
multiple usages during the proper active operation for which the plant was designed.
Every plant that is built with piping systems must insure that the piping systems are properly
fabricated, installed and safe. Some of these systems may have very hot or very cold or hazardous
or toxic chemicals in them. These types of commodities can kill, maim or seriously injure the
operators working in one of these plants or the people living around these plants.
In order to insure that a piping system is secure, the system must be tested and properly
prepared prior to start-up. The method used for this testing is to fill the system with water and then
apply pressure. This is called “Hydro-testing.” Hydro-testing can be done with other types of fluids
but water is the normal choice. The water, under pressure will seek and find weak points in the piping
system and then squirt out. Water under pressure is not as dangerous as a normal commodity such
as high pressure steam or sulfuric acid. Some systems only need to be tested for tightness. Others
must be tested then because the water is not compatible with the process, it must be flushed with a
solvent or other cleaning agent to remove the water. For this Hydro-test to be done and be affective
the system must be absolutely and completely full of water (or other fluid).
In order to completely fill a piping system you must be able to get all the air out of the pipes.
The air will naturally accumulate in the high points of the system. Thus we install “high point vents” to
be able to get rid of the air. Once the test is completed we must be able to get rid of or drain out all
the water. The water naturally gravitates down to the low points of the system. So we install “low
point drains.”
Hydro-test vents and drains are normally ¾” or 1” in size. Most of these vents and drains are
only used when the plant is first built or when a system is modified and must be retested. These
vents and drains do not always require valves. Some plants only install temporary valves for use
during the testing process. After the test the valve is removed and a plug is installed. Other plants
may use some selected hydro-test vents or drains as process start-up vents or drains so the valves
installed in these are retained. Still other plants require that all hydro-test valves be permanently
installed and plugged.
In conclusion, high point vents and low point drains are a small but important and necessary
detail of the piping system in a process plant.

Hydrocarbon

The question:
Can you offer any basic design information for piping on petroleum (oil & gas) projects? So far
in my career, I have only worked on chemical piping on a Paper Mill project. I would like know some
details about piping for other types of projects.

My answer:
First let’s note some of the different segments related to the broad field of the hydrocarbon
(petroleum) world. Currently companies all around the world and the people in piping at those
companies do work on projects in the following segments.
 Point of Production – These are the projects at and around the well head including the
“Christmas Tree” that mounts on the well itself. These well heads may be on dry land or they
may be hundreds or thousands of feet/meters below the surface of the ocean. The piping
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

originating at the well head will continue to one or more of the following; A cross country pipe
line; A sub-sea pipe line to a tanker loading facility; A sub-sea pipeline from the well head to a
shore facility; A floating intermediate processing facility; or any combination of these.
 Oil storage terminals – These are sometimes located at both ends of the oil
transportation path. At or near the point of production there may be a “gathering” system
which collects the oil from many wells (or groups of wells). These gathering systems are made
up of pipes that bring the crude oil to one or more large tanks. The crude oil is then pumped
via pipeline, or tankers for transoceanic shipment to its next destination. When there is ocean
shipment involved there are facilities for the loading of the crude oil and for the off loading and
processing of contaminated ballast water. The oil storage terminals at the other end of the
transoceanic shipment must have the proper facilities for the offloading of the crude and for
the loading of ballast water. All tanker loading/unloading docks must be designed to allow for
a full range of tides along with the broad swing of load levels.
 Oil Refinery – An oil refinery is the final processing facility for part of the oil but may be
only an intermediate step for other portions of the oil. The modern refinery will have tankage
facilities for the incoming crude. It will also have tankage for intermediate products, finished
products, off spec products and waste products (slops). Tankage will also be provided for
other commodities such as raw water, firewater and chemicals. The main process facilities
included in the overall refinery will most likely include the following: Crude Unit, Vacuum Unit,
Decoker, FCCU (Fluid Catylitic Cracker Unit), Light Ends Unit, Hydrocracker Unit, Platformer,
Desulphurization Unit, SAT Gas Unit, Steam Plant, (maybe a Power Plant), Utility Air Plant,
truck, rail, barge or ship loading facility for finished products, vapor collection and flare system,
raw water treatment unit, firewater system and waste water/storm water treatment facility.
 Product Marketing Facilities – Some refinery may have facilities for the packaging or
distribution of products such as motor oils, gasoline, “bottle gas” or heating fuels such as
kerosene.
 Petrochemical Plants - These are other process plants or units that take selected
hydrocarbon side streams from a refinery and convert them for the making of plastics,
fertilizers or other high-tech products.

Each of these segments will fall under the jurisdiction of one or more of the many industry
Codes, Standards and Regulations. These will also include a wide range of equipment, some of it
may be similar in type from one segment to another but some of the processes will have equipment
that is special or unique to that type of facility. The piping in each of these segments will have some
things that will be common but they will also have things that are different. The differences are in the
form, fit and function of the segment or the individual units. There will also be differences in three
factors affecting these units including the piping; these are pressure, temperature and corrosion.
Let’s talk a bit about these three factors.
Atmospheric pressure (at sea level) is 14.7 lb per square inch (psi). The vacuum Unit will
operate at 4.5 to 5.5 psi. Other units such as the Hydrocracker and Platformer will operate at
elevated pressures as high as 2000 psi. Now 4.5 psi is not a big change from 14.7 psi but when
taken with other factors it will make a difference in the piping and what the piper must do. The
pressure in the Hydrocracker piping at 2000 psi is a big difference from normal atmospheric pressure
and the piping is affected. The piper who wants to work on Petroleum and Petrochemical projects will
need to know pipe, piping fittings, piping conventions and piping methods for all pressure ratings.
Ambient temperature varies from place to place all over the world. Projects in the north of
Russia, the North Slope of Alaska or Canada will experience -60ºF (60 degrees below zero). Not a lot
of process plants are built in these regions but the Prudhoe Bay oil comes out of the ground at 180ºF.
The piping, the pipe supports and the pipe flexibility in such a place needs to be designed to allow for
as much as a 240ºF swing in temperature. A Crude Unit, Hydrocracker, or a Decoker will operate at
750ºF or more. Other types of units in the Petrochemical process grouping will experience even
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

higher temperatures. The piper who wants to work on Petroleum and Petrochemical projects will
need to know pipe, piping fittings, pipe routing, piping support conventions and piping flexibility
methods for all temperatures.
Corrosion of the outside of the pipe is caused by the effects of the natural atmosphere. It is
also caused by trace elements that leak from the surrounding environment and mixes with the natural
atmosphere. To control or reduce the effects of the corrosion to the outside of the piping system,
various paints and coating materials are used. These do not tend to have a big effect on the piper or
what he or she might do. It is, however, important to be informed about this. Corrosion to the inside
the pipe is caused by the commodity itself or by trace elements that are found (or develop) in the
commodity. Some corrosive elements may also be made worse by the effect of temperature,
pressure or both. To control or reduce the effect of this internal corrosion a pipe material is normally
selected that is resistant to that specific corrosive element. Different piping materials can and will
require that the piper know and consider different things. The piper who wants to work on Petroleum
and Petrochemical projects will need to know pipe, piping fittings, piping conventions and piping
methods for all piping materials.
In your question you asked for any basic (piping) design information. Here, your question
tends to address the piping of specific equipment and the nature of the different types of units. That is
a very big and very broad request! The simple answer is “learn everything” you never know where
your career is going to take you. Others will be better able to advise you on the well head piping, oil
or gas gathering and pipeline piping, this is not my area of expertise. I recommend that the best way
for a novice to get a lot of information about refinery and petrochemical plant piping is to buy and
study the Ed Bausbacher/Roger Hunt book.

Process Plant Layout and Piping Design

by Ed Bausbacher and Roger Hunt (Paperback - 1st edition July 22, 1993)
Book Description
This profusely illustrated, comprehensive guidebook presents tried-and-true workable methods
and rules of thumb for plant layout and piping design for the process industries. Content is
organized and presented for quick-reference on-the-job or for systematic study of specific
topics. Presents general concepts and principles of plant layout -- from basic terminology and
input requirements to deliverables; deals with specific pieces of equipment and their most
efficient layout in the overall plant design configuration; addresses the plant layout
requirements for the most common process unit equipment; covers piping requirements for the
entire plant as well as all equipment types; and considers the computerized tools that are now
available to help plant layout and piping designers. This book features more than 640
illustrations of equipment and piping found in the typical processing facility.

Instrument Connection Location Criteria:

The question here:

“What is the proper location for pressure and temperature instrument connections on a pipe?”

My answer:
In Horizontal liquid lines the instrument tap should be taken from the side of the pipe. The
reason for this is the horizontal tap prevents the build up vapors or gases that would have a negative
effect on the performance of the instrument.
In horizontal Vapor or Gas lines the instrument tap may be located in the side of the line or in
the top of the line. This allows condensables to drain out of the inside of the tap and thus not affect
the instrument performance.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

I have an additional recommendation that relates to the situation in your question. This is in
regards to the existence of a pressure instrument connection and a temperature instrument
connection close together in the same line.
Recommendation: In the line of flow never place the temperature instrument connection in
front (upstream) of the pressure instrument connection. The normal temperature connection has a
thermowell probe that sticks (or protrudes) into the pipe. This probe creates an obstruction which
causes turbulence in the liquid or gas flow. The turbulence in turn has been known to affect the
accuracy of the reading on the (downstream) pressure instrument.
So, when you have both a pressure instrument and a temperature instrument close together in
the same line, always place the pressure connection upstream of the temperature connection. An
easy way to remember this (assuming English language) is to place them in alphabetical order (P
before T).

Line Numbering
The question:
“Is there a common system for line numbering and if so what is it?”

I could be wrong but I think it is safe to say there is no “common pipe line numbering system”
in use in the process plant engineering and design world. There are just too many companies and
people and clients and project types to be able to achieve such commonality. I don’t remember
seeing anything in ASME B31.3 (or any other Code), but then again it is not the purpose of the B31
Code to dictate a line numbering system.
To properly discuss this subject we need to understand the purpose of the “Line Number.” We
also need to acknowledge that some companies use the term “Line Designation.” Whether your
company uses the term “Line number” or the term “Line designation” the purpose is the same. It is for
line identification. This identification is necessary through out the project and is used for many
purposes by different people or groups. The line numbering should be controlled by the piping group
for the project and done by the piping material engineer for that project.
As with any of the other “gray hair” pipers, I too have seen many different line numbering
systems in my working past. Of all of them I have determined that there are some similarities but no
totally common system.
Here are some details that I have been able to determine for myself. There are two basic
areas that tend to govern line numbering. These are the line number method and the line number
elements.
• Methods - There are two basic line numbering “methods.” The first method is based on the
Purpose or Function of the line. The second method is based on the line “Size.”
• Elements - There are many potential line identification elements that may be included in a line
numbering system. The elements that are most commonly included in a line numbering scheme are:
Plant Location, Line Identity, Line Class (or Line Specification), Size, Insulation Type (when required)
and Heat Tracing Type (when required).
The “purpose or functional” method of line numbering is where the line is best defined as a
single line having an origin and a terminus consistent with a purpose or function. An example of this
might be a pump suction line. It might come from a Storage Tank, a Tower Bottom or an
Accumulator. It travels some distance and then splits and connects to the two pumps designated for
that one service or function. This is one line, it serves one purpose or function therefore it has only
one line number. Another example would be the pump discharge that leaves both of these pumps
and join to form the single pipe line that runs to the next piece of equipment. This line also has one
purpose or function therefore it has only one number.
The “line size” method is where the line number changes whenever and wherever the line size
changes. When compared to the first (purpose or function) method, the pump suction line might have

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

five line numbers instead of one. The pump discharge might also have five or more depending on
what happens at the destination end of the line.
One or the other of these two methods becomes the “Rule” for a company, client or
project. As we all know, for every rule you will always be able to find an exception. One exception
that is common to both of these “Rules” is the rule of the change of line class (or line
specification). The change in line class is most often caused by a change in pressure or material. A
line might be the same size from one point to another but includes a pressure control valve that lets
the pressure down to a level that allows a lower flange rating and or another material therefore a
different line class. There are other line class change initiators but I think you get the idea. Any
change in a lines conditions or material causes a mandatory change in the line number no mater
which line numbering method is being used.

The elements of a line number might be arranged and look something like this:

10-1021-CA1A-12”- IH -ST
Where:
10 = the plant Unit or Area (mandatory)
1021 = the numeric line number (mandatory)
CA1A = the line class (mandatory)
12” = the line size (mandatory)
IH = Hot Insulation (only when required) (1)
ST = Steam Tracing (only when required) (2)

(1) Other types of insulation include IC = Cold Insulation, IS = Safety Insulation, IA = Acoustic (or
Sound) Insulation, etc.
(2) Other types of tracing include: ET = Electric Tracing, CWT = Chill Water Tracing, TT = Thermon
(Hot Oil) Tracing, etc.

I have no doubt that there are other items of information that could be or are added in some form or
another based on the preference of a specific company of client. My credo is “Keep It Simple.” The
manner of arranging the Elements to form a line number is something that is also dictated by the
Company and or in some cases the Client. The sequence that is shown above is in the order of
information priority that I am used to.

The line numbering activity should only be done when the P&ID’s are well along in the development
process. The more complete the P&ID’s are the less hours will be wasted and the better the results
of the line numbering effort. The degree of P&ID completeness prevents recycle when new
equipment or systems are added or when equipment or systems are deleted.

As the Piping Material Engineer (or designate) performs the line numbering of the P&ID he or she
also initiates the first draft of the Line List (or Line Designation Table) data base. The resultant
document from this data base will be extensive for a whole project but will be broken down by plant
area.

In addition to the line identification elements (indicated above), the Line List (data base and
document) will or should also include important information for the design process and construction
process such as the following:
• The line commodity
• The phase (liquid or gas)
• The origin of the line
• The destination of the line
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

• The line pressure, both the normal operating pressure and the maximum operation (or Design)
pressure
• The line temperature, both the normal operating temperature and the maximum operation (or
Design) temperature
• An indicator code for Stress Analysis requirements
• PWHT requirements
• The insulation thickness (optional)
• The line schedule (optional)

The line list once initiated will have many additions, deletions and be used by lots of people
throughout the project both in the design office and in the field.

One of the first and most important activities where the line list is used is when the definitive labor
hour estimate in generated. The number of lines on a project has a direct bearing on the labor hours
required. This is true for the piping design activities in the home office, the pipe fabrication shop and
for the installation contractor in the field. So it is very important to get it right.

MTO, BOM & BOQ

The question:
What is the meaning of MTO, BOM and BOQ and how do I start this ..... I mean some useful
tips to make a BOM, MTO, BOQ...like what are the things to be considered, what all are mandatory...
etc. ?”

My answer: (Based on my experience)

MTO means Material Take-Off. This is the counting of the pieces and parts needed to
fabricate, purchase and or construct something. There are normally three material take-offs during a
process plant project. These are preliminary, secondary and final.
Preliminary MTO:
What is it? – A preliminary MTO is a material take-off very early in the design process when
only a limited amount of information is known and very little detail has been developed.
Why is it done? - A preliminary MTO is normally done for two reasons. The first is to assist
with the early "order-of-magnitude" (+/- 10%) estimate for the overall project. The second reason is to
issue early order of magnitude "RFQ's" (Request for Quote) for piping materials
When is it done? - The preliminary MTO is only possible when there is a Plot Plan that is
"Approved" by the Client or has been issued to the client for approval. This is done long before there
is any detailed work started on the 3D design model.
Who does it? - A preliminary MTO is best done by very strong well experienced senior piping
designers who are familiar with the project.
How is it done? - For the preliminary MTO we used a formatted form on which we could
indicate the number or amount of material required for each line. On the form I would identify the line
number along with the line class. I would then look at this line on the P&ID and on the Plot Plan and
determine the routing of the pipe. Then in the boxes (on the form) I would then mark the amount of
pipe required for each size required for that line. Then I would count the number of fittings required,
starting with 90 degree elbows. Then continuing through all the other inline fittings and online fittings.
After the fittings I would count all the flanges by size. Then I would count all the valves from the P&ID.
The high point vents and low point drains would be made last based on an educated guess. Then I
would take another form and do another line. As I did each line I would "Yellow" off the line on the
P&ID so at the end all the lines are accounted for. As the forms were completed they would be

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

reviewed by the Area Supervisor and then forwarded to the Material Control Group who would
process the data to produce the RFQ's
Secondary MTO:
Why is it done? - The primary reason for the Secondary MTO is to update quantities for the
issue of the actual Purchase orders for piping material. A second reason is to update the project
estimate.
When is it done? - The Secondary MTO can only be done when there is significant progress
completed on the 3D design model (or other electronic design method). However it must be done
early enough to insure that the procurement (purchase and delivery) of the piping material to the field
will fit the overall project schedule.
Who does it? - The Material Control Group.
How is it done? - The Material Control Group would access the electronic data base and
down-load all the material available at that time. Some factoring would be done by the Material
Control Group and the Piping Design Leads to allow for work not done yet.
Final MTO –
Why is it done? - The final MTO is done first to identify any item added late in the project or
anything that was missed on the Preliminary or Secondary MTO's. The second reason for the Final
MTO is to get a fix on the final job costs.
When is it done? - The Final MTO is done when the last Isometric has been issued.
Who does it? - The Material Control Group.
How is it done? - The Material Control Group would access the electronic data base and
down-load all the material. Any differences between the Final MTO and the Secondary MTO would be
identified. Purchase orders would be issued for the updated quantities.

Please remember this is only how it was done where I was. Use it as a guide but please do
not be misled that this is the only way an MTO can be done.

North, Geographic, Plant, etc.

The question:
What is the difference between geographic north, plant north and isometric north? What are
the criteria to apply to these directions during plot plan development and piping study?

My answer:
You have asked a very good question. There are a number of “North’s” and every designer,
engineer, project manager and client needs to know and understand what these are and what they
means to the project.
So let’s look at the list of common North’s that are found on process plant projects along with a
description of what it is and why it is used.
 True North: Every place on earth has a True North and it is pretty much the same no
manner where you are. It is located at 90 degrees north of the equator, it is the North
Pole. It does not move.
 Geographic North: Same as True North. The term True North is normally the
preferred terminology for this.
 Magnetic North: Magnetic North is not normally used on the average process plant
project. The magnetic North Pole is always moving. In 2005 the earth’s Magnetic
North was located at 82.7 degrees North Latitude and 114.4 degrees West Longitude.
This places it far off the north coast of Canada. Because it is always moving it is not
reliable as t fixed reference point.
 Plant North: For a project on dry land this is the most important North Arrow used in
the process plant engineering, design and construction business. It is rare to find a
piece of property that has the major axis of the property aligned with True North.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Because of the way all of our ancestors settled the countries and lands of the world
then built roads everything is out of alignment with the North Pole. When a project is
first started, the property (of some shape) is displayed on a property map that will
normally include a North Arrow showing True North. The property may be at any
angle (angle of declination) off True North. It is very difficult to do any kind of design if
everything is at an odd angle. To simplify the design process a new North is created
for the project and this is called the Plant North. It is normal to include the Plant North
and the True North on the project Plot Plan along with the angle of declination. Other
documents such as structural foundations and piping plans only need the Plant North.
as a reference point.
 Platform North: For an offshore drilling platform or processing facility platform this is
the most important North Arrow. The Platform North will be assigned for each specific
platform and may or may not relate to actual north.
 Isometric North: There is not (or should not be) anything called an “Isometric North.”
Isometrics must have a North Arrow on them but it is the Plant North, not a different
north.

O-Let Fittings
The question:
“I am currently preparing a material take-off for part of a process plant and the piping material
spec had specified nipoflanges or weld-o-let as a branch connection. Is it advisable to use the
nipoflange for branches?”

My answer:
You have asked a very good question. Let me see if I can give you a useful answer.
First you did not give a flange rating or material so I must assume you are meaning "all ratings
and all materials"
Second, I am not use to calling the specific fitting a "nipoflange." I am more use to calling
them a "flange-o-let"
I would recommend that you could consider the flange-o-let (nipoflange) for:
1 - the small valved branches (2' and smaller) for vents, drains, pressure connections and
others in line classes where all small valves are flanged. I think the small flange-o-let (when available
in the material and flange rating) can be cost effective.
2 - temperature well connections where the job spec's call for flanged wells

It has been a long time since I was involved in the purchase of these so I might be wrong but I
do not think that flange-o-lets would be cost effective in the larger sizes.

Painting of piping materials

The question:
“A valve supplier tells us that will supply valves with only primer painting, and finishing painting
shall be performed at site. Is it acceptable?”

My answer:
With this situation and any others (bulk pipe) you have four choices.
1) Pay the (valve) vendor extra to do the finished painting
2) Establish what is called "In-transit-processing" contract with a third party to receive the
material (valves), do the finished painting and then ship the valves on to the field.
3) Have the field crew/painting sub-contractor do the finished painting.
4) Don’t do any finished painting.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

There is a cost involved with any one of the choices.

Pipe, A definition of
The question: “What is the definition of pipe?”

My answer:
Pipe: n, A hollow cylinder or tube used to conduct a liquid, gas, or finely divided solid. B. A
section or piece of such a tube.
The above is the dictionary definition for pipe. It uses the word (tube) to describe pipe. This
use of the word tube can and does cause confusion among people new to the piping profession.
Although pipe and tubing may look somewhat alike they are different. In the process plant
engineering, design, material supply and construction business we actually have two different items.
As a piper you must know and be able to recognize the difference.
Pipe and tubing are both product that are used everywhere in the process plant construction
industry. Pipe is made of all sorts of materials - galvanized steel, black steel, stainless steel, chrome-
alloy steels, aluminum, copper, cast iron, concrete, glass and plastics such as ABS, PVC, CPVC,
polyethylene, and polybutylene. Pipe is also made as concrete lined steel, plastic lined and glass
lined.
Tubing is also made in many of these same materials.

Pipe, How it is made

The question:
Could you please give some explanation of how pipe is made?”

My answer:
The vast majority of pipe is steel and made as seamless pipe or rolled and welded (sometimes
referred to as ERW) pipe. The pipe sizes up to 12' has a nominal size which is close but not the same
as the actual O. D. Pipe in sizes 14" and larger have an O. D. the same as the nominal size. Both the
seamless pipe and the ERW pipe come in different wall thicknesses depending on the pressure/temp
criteria. Pipe normally comes in lengths called "single random" (20'+/-) or "double random" (40'+/-).
ERW pipe is also furnished in very long lengths, spooled on large coils for pipeline needs. Pipe is
normally joined using butt weld pipe fittings.
ERW Pipe is a cheaper product due to low manufacturing cost but has limited application in
terms of size, grade and end use.
ERW - Electric Resistance Welded
For pipes or tubes size 4 inch (10.2mm) OD and below, strip is fed into a set of forming rolls
which consists of horizontal and vertical rollers so placed as to gradually from the flat strip in to a tube
which is then allowed to pass the welding electrodes. The electrodes are copper disks connected to
the secondary of a revolving transformer assembly.
The copper disk electrodes make contact on each side of the seam and temperature is raised
to the welding point. Outside flash is removed by a cutting tool as the tube leaves the electrodes,
inside flash is removed either by an air hammer or by passing a mandrel through the welded tube
after the tube has been cooled. This is termed as Electric Resistance welded or ERW tube/pipe. If this
ERW is being drawn further to get desired size of tubes or pipes, in cold condition is called as Cold
Drawn welded or CDW.
SAW - Submerged Arc Welded
This process is used for pipes from 24" to 36" i.e. 610mm to 914mm OD. Flat plate is first
pressed into U and later O shape. The O shape is placed in an automatic welder and backed up on
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

the inside by a water cooled copper shoe. Two electrodes in close proximity and used. The electrodes
are not in actual contact with the pipe. The current passes from on electrode through a granular flux
and across the gap in the pipe to the second electrode. The high temperature of the arc heats the
edges of the plate, a welding rod placed just over the seam is thereby melted and metal is deposited
in the groove. After the outside weld has been made, the pipe is conveyed to an inside welder where
a similar operation is carried on, except that no backup shoe is need.
Pipe is not measured by the I. D.
Pipe is labeled two ways depending on a specific size break.
Pipe above (or larger than) 14" is labeled based on the outside diameter in 2" increments (i.e.:
14", 16", 18", 20", etc.)
Pipe 12" and under is given a size "name" close to its size. This is the "nominal" size.
Pipe in all sizes comes in different wall thicknesses. Pipe is normally joined using fittings;
however a lot of piping is bent by high temperature bending.
A key point is where would we use seamless pipe and where would we use welded pipe?
Most of the use restrictions were dictated by the client.
Welded pipe was used where there was predominance for low pressure and low temperature,
such as in tank farms, water treatment, etc. Seamless pipe was called for and a mandatory
requirement inside the battery limits of hydrocarbon processing units. The main reason cited was
better resistance to rupture during a potential fire. The second reason was the high potential for reuse
of pipe inside a process unit for other purposes during a revamp.
To explain this point, say a water line was installed using welded pipe during the original
construction. Now, ten years later during a revamp the type of pipe was not checked and the old
water line pipe is reused in a hydrocarbon service. The hydrocarbon line then becomes subject to a
higher pressure and temperature. It then bursts because the welded pipe was not rated for the new
service.

Pipe Rack Sizing

The question:
“How do you size a pipe rack? What are the steps?”

My answer:
Pipe Rack Height - The height if a pipe rack is based on the minimum overhead clearance
required under the lowest level of piping passing transverse under the rack (normally 12'-0" +/- or 4
meters). Then the vertical spacing of the North-South (N-S) and East-West (E-W) levels is determined
by the largest average line size in the rack. If your largest average line size is 12" NPS (a 12" long
radius Ell is 18") then, two Ells welded together results in 3'-0' center to center of pipe (also 3'-0"
bottom of pipe to bottom of pipe). This means that the vertical spacing between the N-S and the E-W
rack should be 3'-0". If you only require one level then you will have the original grade (ground) to
lowest crossing level which may be 12'-0" plus 3'-0" to the first rack level for a total of 15'-0" For every
rack level you add you must double the 3'-0" to allow for another crossing level between the normal
rack levels. The final overall height of the rack is determined by the number of levels required and
any other special conditions or requirements. Special conditions include mounting Air Cooled
Exchangers (Fin Fans) on top of the pipe rack or the requirement to have the flare line slope to free
drain to the Flare Knock-out Drum.
Pipe Rack Width - The width of any given pipe rack is best determined early in the project
during the Plot Plan development activity by doing a “Piping Study” (See Piping Study included in this
paper). You must have well developed P&ID's and an understanding from the structural group on the
type of supports construction (i.e.: bare steel, fire proofed steel, pre-fab concrete, or poured in place
concrete). You then take the preliminary equipment arrangement (does not need to be to scale) and
allow a clear space where you know the pipe rack will be located. Then take every line from the P&ID
that you know will need to run on the pipe rack and "sketch" it onto the pipe way area of the
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

preliminary plot plan. As you go make sure you identify every line with the line number, line
classification, line size and insulation if required. Do not make it detailed; keep it a very simple "stick"
drawing. Do this with all lines. This drawing is also called a "Transposition" and the activity is called
doing a "transposition." Once you have completed the transposition and all the lines shown then you
can find the most congested point of the pipe rack. Study the most congested point to determine the
most appropriate line sequence. By this I mean which lines need to be on the east side of the rack,
which lines need to be on the west side of the rack and where the other lines should be? Next you
need to calculate the spacing between each two lines individually. To do this you take one half the
diameter of the flange of the largest of each two lines + one half the outside diameter of the other
pipe + the thickness of any insulation on the smaller line if any + 1" spacing. Do this for all pipes in
the congested part of the transposition. Now add the line spacing for a raw total. To the raw total you
should add 30% for lines that may be added during Design Development. You should also ask the
client how much "Future" rack space is wanted (normally 10%) for the finished plant. The raw total
plus the 30% plus the 10% may give you a number that is acceptable for a one level rack. However
you may find it is more likely that you will need two or more main levels. Work with the numbers,
considering the overall space available, the span of the proposed rack and the loading to be placed
on the span.
Line Spacing - Line spacing is (a)one half the diameter of the flange of the largest of each two
lines +(b)one half the outside diameter of the other or smaller pipe + (c)the thickness of any insulation
on the smaller line if any + (d)1" spacing.

Pipe Routing and Reasons (Revision #3)

The question:

Can you please help me out; I would like to know more about process piping. Like
rules of thumb to be used while piping etc. & factors to be considered while routing the
pipe.

My answer:

“In piping there is a reason for everything”

M. J. (Mike) Garofalo

Mike Garofalo was the Manager of Piping Engineering and Design at Fluor
Corporation’s Southern California Division from mid 1954 till 1980. He did more for the
piping profession in that company than anyone I know of. He was a visionary, a leader
and a teacher.

One of the most important things that Mike did during his early years was to keep in
touch with all the jobs and all the pipers. He would make a weekly “walk-around”
through all the projects and talk to some of the piping people. He would not talk to every
piper every week, (there were just too many) but he would randomly stop and talk to a
few pipers on each job.

There are a lot of stories that could be told about him but I want to talk about his words,
“In piping there is a reason for everything.” I first heard these words sometime in the late
1950 are when I was working on a project as a young piping designer. This was during
the time when the other 3D design models were being built. We used wood and plastic
for the structures and equipment, and we used brass wire with specific sized rubber
sleeves for the pipe. We cast all of our own valves and soldered them to the brass wire.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The pipers did all the model piping.

There came a time when the model board I was working on was about 90% complete and
Mike showed up for his weekly walk-around. On this particular day he stopped at my
table and looked over my work. He greeted me and I, shaking in my boots, greeted him
in response. He then proceeded to point to a specific line and ask, “Why did you route
that line that way?” Needless to say I was a bit flustered and my response was “I don’t
know”.

Now Mike was a full head taller than me and out weighed me by at least 150 pounds. He
was Italian and looked stern. After my answer he turned red and I swear I saw steam
come out his ears. I was sure that I had just made a classic career-ending mistake. But no,
he proceeded to pull up a drafting stool and sit down beside me. He lowered his voice
and taught me my most valuable piping lesson.

He said to me that “In piping there is a reason for everything. He told me that when you
are about to route a line, place a valve or locate an instrument connection you must know
why you are doing it and why you are doing it that specific way and why you are placing
it there. If you don’t know why then you should look again. If you can not figure out
why then you should ask one of the senior pipers.”

He went on to say “Today it was me that asked you this question, but what if it had been
the Client?” He went on, “What do you think he or she would have thought? You see
there is always a reason for routing a line a certain way or placing a valve in a certain
place.” We talked for some time about this approach to piping and I have remembered it
and used it throughout my career.

Reasons to consider:
- Functional: Check the P&ID for the function of this line valve, instrument or other
item. It has a purpose and it may have some specific restrictions (do not pocket, slope,
etc.)
- Mechanical: The limitations of the piping materials or the properties of the piping
materials may have a bearing on the assembly or configuration.
- Stress and flexibility: The routing must consider that lines expand or contract and they
cause forces that can result in failure of the system.
- Fabrication/Installation: The ability to fabricate and install a piping system may seem
like small thing but it needs to be considered.
- Operation: What does the operator need to do to operate valves and read instruments?
- Maintenance: What is required to maintain this piping system and the equipment
around this specific area?
- Safety: Not thinking about the pipe routing may result in a situation that creates an
unsafe work place.

It would have been good for all pipers to meet Mike. But sadly he is gone now. But you
can all remember his words:
“In piping there is a reason for everything”

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

What does it take to be a good piper? To be a good piper you need knowledge (data and
information), intelligence and wisdom. You see there is a big difference between these
three. What’s the difference? Let’s start with all five terms.

Knowledge, n. the state of knowing, cognition // understanding. (Consisting of):

-Data, n. a known fact // the assumption which forms the basis for an inference or
conclusion. Data plural of Datum (fact, facts).

-Information, n. the communication of news, knowledge etc. a fact or facts told or

communicated // data fed to a machine

Intelligence, n. the ability to perceive logical relationships and use one's knowledge to
solve problems and respond appropriately to novel situations.

Wisdom, n. the quality of being wise. Wise, adj. having the ability to make a right
decision or judgment by applying intelligent thought to a wide range of and knowledge,
with prudence

The above is very important to the piping designer in the performance of the day to day
piping work. You need to make sure you have all the data and all the information. With
this pool of knowledge you will hopefully have the intelligence to do the work right and
the wisdom to get it when it is required.

A key issue here is:

Is All the Right Information Known?
And
Is All the Known Information Right?

I will give you an example where this applied. And in this example the answer to the first
question was yes, but the answer to the second question turned out to be a big no.

My company accepted a small secondary “add-on” project from an existing client. I was
assigned to this smaller project as the piping engineering lead. The client was in such a
rush for this project that they had already purchased all the equipment. (From vendor
“X”) We had to deal thru the client for all communications with vendor “X”. The
equipment was already being manufactured. We needed all the information about the
equipment including the shape, size, configuration, anchor bolt locations, piping
connections, etc. Vendor “X” would not talk to us and said we should talk to the client.

We finally got both the client and vendor “X” to agree to a joint meeting. In this meeting
we asked if vendor “X” had done there engineering drawings on a computer. They said
they had and it turned out their system was compatible with the system we were using.
We asked if their drawing were accurate and to scale. They said, “Of course!” Figuring
we could save a lot of time I asked the client to have vendor “X” give us an electronic
copy of the equipment files. Vendor “X” said “No problem.”

To make a long story short, we got the files. They were very detailed and we proceeded
to use them. Structural got a copy and started on their work. Piping got a copy and
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

started on their work. When we brought the two models together they did not match. The
problem was that the electronic picture and the dimensions did not match. Somehow they
(vendor “X”) had taken an electronic copy of the equipment from another (smaller) job
and then overridden the dimensions to meet the needs of our project.

I had used poor judgment in not having the E-drawings checked. We had all the right E-
drawings but not all of the E- drawings were right.

Pipe Sizes - NPS vs. metric

The question:
“How does nominal size relate to actual diameter?”

My answer:
Pipe sizes, along with the related pipe fittings, pipe flanges and valves are designated in both
inches (NPS - Nominal Pipe Size) and metric units (DN - "Diameter Nominel").
Pipe is identified by "nominal" or "trade" names that are loosely related to actual dimensions.
For instance, a 2-inch galvanized steel pipe has an inside diameter of about 2 1/8 inches and an
outside diameter of about 2 5/8 inches. It is called "2-inch pipe" only for the sake of convenience.
There are the inch names for pipe products called NPS or "nominal pipe size" and their metric equivalents called
DN or "diametre nominel". The metric designations conform to International Standards Organization (ISO) usage and
apply to all plumbing, natural gas, heating oil, and miscellaneous piping used in buildings.
NPS DN
(inches) (mm)
1 25
2 50
3 80
4 100
6 150
8 200
10 250
12 300
14 350
16 400
18 450
20 500
22 550
24 600
26 650
28 700
30 750
32 800
36 900

Pipe Spacing Revision (1)

The question:
Hello there....do you have table for standard pipe to pipe spacing.....

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

My answer:
It is always helpful to know, understand and remember the basis for line spacing. Different
engineering companies and owner (client) companies may have their rules but the most common
minimum pipe spacing rule is as follows:
- Flange-to-pipe + clearance (+ insulation if any)

This means:
For hot insulated lines with the same flange rating, line spacing includes 1/2 the O. D. of the
flange for one line (largest if different sizes) + 1/2 the O. D. of the other pipe + 25mm (1") + the
thickness of the insulation on the smaller line (if any)

For cold insulated lines with the same flange rating, line spacing includes 1/2 the O. D. of the
flange for one line (largest if different sizes) + 1/2 the O. D. of the other pipe + 25mm (1") + the
thickness of the insulation on the flange + the thickness of the insulation on the smaller line

Notes:
1, it is common practice to always stagger flanges when ever possible.
2, it is common practice to insulate the pipe in hot services and leave the flanges bare.
3, It is common practice to insulate both the pipe and the flanges in cold services.

In cases where flanges cannot be staggered then the rule is adjusted as follows:
- Flange-to-flange + 25mm (1") (+ any insulation on the flanges)

For line spacing where one line is a higher flange rating you should take 1/2 the flange
diameter of the flange that has the greater flange width or extension. The extension if a flange is
equal to the radius of the flange minus the radius of the pipe.

Example:
Line (a) 24" 150#
Line (b) 8" 1500#
Which line would you use for the "1/2 flange dimension" in the calculation for line spacing?

The flange width for line (a) is 4"

The flange width for line (b) is 5.188"

If you use the normal pipe spacing rule then the flange of line (b) will hit the pipe of line (a).

I have created a spreadsheet showing the worst case flange extensions for all of the standard flange
sizes and ratings. I will be happy to send it to anyone who would like to have it.
Just E-Mail me >> jopennock@[Link] << and ask for the:
"Quick Worst Case Flange Extension Chart"

Pipe Stress Criteria

The question:
What are the criteria for which lines need formal stress calculation?”

My answer:
You will get lots of opinions on this one. Here is what I use and teach.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

1. “The 1500 rule”

(from David Diehl, COADE)
a. If the line size (nominal pipe size) times (x) the temperature (degrees F) are below 1500
then the line "may" not need formal stress analysis.
Example 3”(x) 400 degrees (F) = 1200

b. If the line size (nominal pipe size) times (x) the temperature (degrees F) are above1500
then the line "may" need formal stress analysis.
Example 4" (x) 400 degrees (F) = 1600

2. If the line (regardless of temperature) connects to a pump, a compressor or other alignment

sensitive equipment then it should be submitted for formal stress analysis.

3. The "May" noted above relates to the application of good judgment when considering other
factors such as metallurgy and the wall thicknesses above schedule 80.

Pipe Stress Isometrics

The question;
"Is there ever a need to produce the stress iso's for a whole package/project?"

My answer:
The simple and quick answer would be "No." However there will always be the exception.

In the book "Piping Engineering Leadership for Process Plant Projects" (by James O.
Pennock) there is "Chapter 10, Project Definition -- Scope of Work" This chapter defines the what
and why of the process of writing a Project Definition and a definitive Scope of Work.
Each and every Engineering/Design group should prepare there own write-up for the project
describing their understanding of what the project is and what it is going to take from their group to
make the project a success.
The Scope of Work is made up of two parts. There is Part A which is the Scope of Facilities,
and there is Part B which is the Scope of Services. The Part A (for piping) should describe the
number and types of units along with the general type of piping (i.e.: hot, cold, high pressure, low
pressure, alloy, etc.). This part should be in as much detail as possible.
The Part B (for piping) should define what services will be provided and what the deliverables
will be. The deliverables include both the external deliverables and the internal deliverables. Internal
deliverables include stress sketches, normally prepared by the piping designer and then issued
(internally) to the Stress Engineer for analysis.
The Stress Engineer is a part of the overall Piping Engineering and Design team on the
project and as such did a complete review of the proposed project and has participated in the
development of the Scope of Work. This review by the Stress Engineer, alone with input from the
Client, Project Management, the Piping Department Management and the applicable Codes will
identify the level formal stress action recommended for the project.
I could go on and on but key is the type of project and the agreed to scope of services.

Pipe Support Loads

The question:
“What is the quick or proper way to define the loading on pipe supports?”
My answer:

23
 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Here is one way. Develop a simple "transposition." To do a transposition there are

requirements. Requirements: Good P&ID's, a rough plot plan, a pencil, a straight edge and a pipe
weight table.
-On plain paper draw a pipe rack (two horizontal column lines and 10 or 12 vertical lines for
each pipe support bent)
-Using light lines mark off "births" about 1/8" to 1/4" apart across the width of the (symbolic)
pipeway
-Note the location of major pieces of equipment by tag number only
-From the P&ID find only the lines that will enter the pipe rack (process and utility headers).
Don't bother with lines that only go direct from equipment to equipment.
-Mark the origin and terminus of each and then run the line selecting an available birth in the
pipeway
-Mark each line with its proper line number, size and insulation
-When all pipeway lines are accounted for find the most congested point (i.e.: the place with
the most lines)
-Count the number of lines of each size
-From the weight tables apply the weight (pipe, hydro test water and insulation, if any) to each
line. Use the actual or proposed pipe support spacing (25'-0"+/-) for the length of pipe to use in the
calculation
-Add up the total weight for only the most congested point
-Add a safety factor for future line additions

-Note, The structural department will also add their safety factor per code.

Pipers, The future of

The question:
What do you think the future hold for pipers? Are the days of the piper numbered, to be
replaced by PDS jockeys? Will all the really big jobs of the future be moved to low cost destinations?
(India, Singapore etc.)

My answer:
I do not believe that the days of the piper are numbered. I know that the way piping is done
has changed, but piping is still piping.
Let’s look at it this as an example. You can go to a computer store or an electronics store and
buy a software program that has architectural symbols and the capabilities to create walls, roofs,
doors and windows. You can buy this for only a few dollars. You can take this program and produce
pretty graphics and drawings of your present home or your dream home. That is easy.
But! And this is a big “But.”
Having the architectural software and having the skills to manipulate the architectural software
does not make you an Architect.
Using this example and applying it to piping I say that someone who just learns PDS and does
not spend time learning the technical side of piping is not a piper. This person is nothing more than a
CAD machine operator who will someday do something very wrong and get someone killed.
As for the moving of “the really big jobs” offshore, I think that we will see some parts of some
jobs shared with corporate partners located in other parts of the world. We now see more and more
companies in foreign countries doing their own work. This is their right and is a good thing. The
important thing to remember is the importance of and the complexities of the piping profession.
These pipers in foreign countries need help to learn piping and how to do “it” right.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Piping Books
The question:
“Can you recommend any good books for piping engineering and design training?”
My answer:
There are a lot of technical books that address the different aspects of piping. Some books
address HVAC and other building systems piping. Some address fire protection piping. There are still
others that address hygienic piping.
For those individuals who are new to the piping profession and want sources to expand their
knowledge there are lots of reference and training books that cover process plant piping engineering
and design. Process plants (in this context) are refineries, chemical plants, power plants, waste
treatment plants, and others.
The books listed here are piping books for process plants and are just a few of the total that
may be available. These happen to be the ones I have in my library. I have used all of these during
my career while both working and teaching.

Piping Reference Books:

(Basin Data:)
The Piping Guide
(For the Design and Drafting of Industrial Piping Systems)
David R. Sherwood and Dennis J. Wistance, BS, MS
ISBN 0-914-08219-1

(Advanced Data:)
Piping Handbook
Mohinder L. Nayyar, P.E. (Editor in Chief)
McGraw-Hill
ISBN 0-07-046881-8

Piping Text Books:

(Basic Piping:)
Process Piping Drafting
Rip Weaver
Gulf Publishing Company
ISBN 0-87201-761-3
Also available by the same author
Process Piping Drafting “Workbook”

Process Piping Drafting

Terence M. Shumaker
Goodheart-Willcox Company, Inc.
ISBN 1-56637-535-5

Piping Drafting and Design

(Using manual, AutoCAD and Pro-Pipe Applications)
Roy A. Parisher and Robert A. Rhea
Gulf Publishing Company
ISBN 0-88415-657-5
Also available by the same author
Piping Drafting and Design “Workbook”
And
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Piping Drafting and Design “Instructors Guide”

(Intermediate Piping:)
Process Piping Design – Volume #1
Rip Weaver
Gulf Publishing Company
ISBN 0-87201-759-5

Process Piping Design – Volume #2

Rip Weaver
Gulf Publishing Company
ISBN 0-87201-760-1

(Advanced Piping:)
Process Plant Layout and Design
Ed. Bausbacher and Roger Hunt
Auerbach Publishers
ISBN 0-7913-0543-5

Piping Systems Drafting And Design

Louis Gary Lamit
Prentice-Hall Publisher
ISBN 0-13-676445-2

Piping Material Engineering:

Piping Material Guide, Selection and Applications
Peter Smith
Gulf Professional Publishing
ISBN 0-7506-7743-0

Valve Selection Handbook (3rd Edition)

R. W. Zappe
Gulf Publishing Company
ISBN 0-87201-863-6

Valve Selection and Specification Guide

Van Nostrand Reinhold
Ronald C. Merrick
ISBN 0-442-31870-7

Piping Management Books:

Piping Engineering Leadership For Process Plant Projects
James O. Pennock
Gulf Professional Publishing
ISBN 0-88415-347-9
Email: jopennock@[Link]
Country: USA

Piping costs:
The question:
“Could you please give me some idea of the cost of the piping in a process plant?”
26
 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

My answer:
The cost of piping in a process plant is a relative thing. Some plant projects may have piping
costs that range as high as 30% of the total cost, while others may be as low as 10%. I can tell you
piping material is very expensive. However the pure cost of the material is not the total cost. You
also need to include the cost of fabrication, the cost of delivery, the cost of installation. Then there is
the cost for testing and inspection. Some plants also have systems that require special and costly
pre-start-up cleaning and pacification. Other systems may require the added cost for heat tracing and
insulation which add even more costs.

Piping Estimating (Revision 1)

The question:
joedevo (Electrical)
Working on a Rough Order of Magnitude (ROM) estimate for the ITER fusion reactor ([Link]) being built
in France. Specifically, we are trying to price the fabrication of the cooling system. The scale of this project is
enormous so it is difficult to obtain the values necessary for an appropriate estimate.
If possible, I would like to know about how much cost and/or man-hours per foot of piping for a fully-designed,
isometric, scale drawing for a finished product on paper prior to fabrication.
Perhaps, someone out there may have a prior chemical plant project which required the same detailed analysis
resulting in a scaled isometric drawing. Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

My answer:
Joedevo, you have classified yourself as “Electrical.” If this in fact your actual background (education,
training and experience) then it sounds as if someone has assigned you a task that is a bit beyond
your current knowledge and capabilities. Below, I have given you some data showing factors for the
home office hours to do piping engineering and design work. Regardless of the type of project, this
type of data reflects only part of the piping cost picture. The other part of the home office hour picture
is the hourly rate to do this work. This hourly rate depends on where you do the work and the level of
expertise (training, experience and supervision) the people have.
Where you have the work done includes the country, the city and the company. If the work is done by
one of the top, first class U.S., U.K. or other European engineering companies in one of their home
engineering offices you will see fewer hours but at a higher cost. This same company might choose
to out-source the work to one of its overseas partners or subsidiaries where the work may need twice
the number of hours to achieve the same level of quality. These hours, however, will be at a rate that
is far below the U.S. rate. So you need to know where the work will be done and adjust the number
of hours and the rates accordingly.

PIPING ESTIMATING DATA

The following data is a summary of the averages of actual data from 4 representative projects
conducted in the late 1990's. The smallest was $9,000,000 and the largest was $60,000,000.

Category Data
Average Total Project Hours = 126,055
Average Total Piping Hours = 33,810
Average Percent Total Piping Hours vs. Total Project Hours = 26.82%

Average Project Line Number Count = 391

Average Project Isometric Count = 1,403

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Average Total Piping Design Hours = 26,190

Average Total Piping Material Engineering Hours = 1,854
Average Total Piping Material Control Hours = 800
Average Total Piping Stress Engineering Hours = 1,528
Average Total Lead Piping Engineer, Dep't Prorate & Admin. = 3,438

Average % Piping Design Hours vs. Total Piping Hours = 77.46%

Average % Piping Material Eng. Hrs vs. Total Piping Hours = 5.48%
Average % Piping Material Control. Hrs vs. Total Piping Hours = 2.37%
Average % Piping Stress Eng. Hrs vs. Total Piping Hours = 4.25%
Average % LPE, Dep't/Admin. Hrs vs. Total Piping Hours = 10.17%

Average Total Hours per Line Number = 86.47

Average Total Hours per Isometric = 24.11appropriate estimate.

There are still many other factors that will impact the Total Installed Cost (TIC) of the piping for a
project. These other factors include the pipe material, the fabrication, the NDE requirements, the
logistics, the final installation, the testing and any pre-start-up preparation.
 Pipe material: This is a multi-part issue. There is the metallurgy itself (carbon steel vs.
alloy. There is a big difference between the wide ranges of materials that might be
used. With-in the given metal there is then the pipe size which affects the cost and
finally there is the pipe schedule (wall thickness) which not only affects the initial cost
of the pipe but it also affects the cost of fabrication.
 Fabrication: The fabrication of the piping systems is either done in a remote “shop” or
is done at the jobsite. Fabrication at a shop is normally done at a cheaper cost than at
the jobsite. The cheaper cost is the result of the ability to use the jigs, fixtures and
automatic welding capabilities that are available in the shop. For this reason most
projects choose to maximize the shop fabrication of most piping systems. However
shop fabrication is only possible up to a point. You will still have to install the piping
spools and make the final field welds.
 NDE requirements: NDE stands for Non-Destructive Examination. Depending on the
applicable Piping Code requirements different levels of NDE is required for welds in
piping systems. NDE is another cost additive to the overall picture.
 Logistics: This relates to the distance and the ramifications involved in the issue of
point of fabrication-to-point of installation. Everything from distance to politics to
weather can and will affect the logistics issue.
 Final installation: This issue is also complex. It is influenced by the jobsite location and
the availability of qualified personnel. The jobsite might be in the arctic or it might be in
the middle of the desert. Both of these bring unique problems and will add to the cost
of the final project. Final installation also includes any heat tracing, insulation and
painting. In some projects it may include dangerous and very costly “Tie-Ins” (Hot-
Taps) to active systems.
 Testing: The applicable Piping Code will dictate the testing requirements. The client
may also require additional testing over-and-above the Code that will also increase the
cost.
 Pre-start-up preparation: This is a category of costly work that may include special
cleaning, pickling of the pipe or other internal pipe surface preparation.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

I would suggest that someone in your company has data on all or most of these categories. However
you will need to determine, ahead of time all or most of the factors. I recommend that you define a
very clear and detailed scope of work on which to base your estimate.

Piping Estimating, Pipe Stress (Revision #3)

The question:
What about Piping Stress Analysis calculation price per piping Stress Isometric?

My answer:
Your question sounds very simple but the answer requires more detailed information. The Stress
hours required per pipe line (Piping Isometric) is influenced by the type of plant and other factors.
The Hour %'s listed above in my "27 Sep. 07 13:00" post could be used for a normal refinery unit
addition or revamp. These percents could also be considered as a base line. Beyond that I would
need to consider and adjust for the following:
The type of plant.
- - Water Treatment Plant - 50% to 70% of base line
- - Biotech/Pharmaceutical plant - 65% to 80% of base
- - Refinery - Base line as shown on the chart above
- - Power Plant [non-nuclear] - 110% to 125%
- - Nuclear Power Plant - 150% to 200% of base
The climate and location of installation.
- - Arctic Job Site - increase base
- - Zone 4 seismic Job Site - increase base
The applicable Design Code.
- - ASME B31.3 - Use base
- - Other - adjust base as required
The engineering company's stress analysis philosophy.
- - Adjust as required
The Client's stress analysis philosophy.
- - Adjust as required

You should also look at the historical data from past projects. You and others should always collect
"end of the project" data to use in future planning.

Piping Estimating, Pipe Fabrication Spools (Revision #3)

The question:
I would like to know how to calculate the price of Pipe Fabrication Shop “Spool drawings.”

My answer:
You do not say what country you are in or tell us what monetary system you are using, so it is a little
hard for us to give you a cost.

However, we can suggest some time factors/hours for the development and handling and then you
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

can add your own labor rates.

Time /hours for a Pipe Fabrication Shop "Spool" should include the following:
Draw (manual or CAD) = 2 hrs (avg.)
Check and correct = 1.5 hrs (avg.)
Material take-off = 0.5 hrs (avg.)
List and track = 0.5 hrs (avg.)
Supervision = 0.2 hrs (avg.)
Total = 4.7 hrs (avg.)

When considering your labor rate I suggest you consider the following.
Novice drafters will have a lower labor rate but will take more time and make more mistakes.
More experienced drafters will take less time and make fewer mistakes but will cost more.

You should try to have a balanced mix when building a staff to do this type of work. This will help to
raise the quality while keeping the rates down. It will also provide a mentoring relationship between
the older and younger members.

You should also recognize that there tends to be a high rate of turn-over among the staff doing this
type of work.
The reason for this is simply that it is very boring work.

Piping, The Importance of

The question:
“Hi, I am interested in knowing more about industrial piping related to chemical industries. Can
anyone guide me to understand the importance, cost component of the piping and the maintenance
involved? Any tips or references will be of great help.”

My answer:
I will try to answer your question this way. It is a commonly accepted fact that the number
one and most common machine device used by humans today is the electric motor. If the electric
motor is the number one machine, then the electrical system is the number one most important
“system” created by humankind. The machine that comes in second is the pump. Every pump will
have piping connected to the suction or the discharge or both. Most pumps will have piping attached
to both the suction and the discharge. So if this is true then we can say that piping plays a very
important role in the life of mankind. Piping may be considered the second most important “system”
created by humans behind the vast electrical distribution system. However, piping is much older than
the electrical system.
Without piping we would not have complex systems that collects, purifies and supplies the
much needed water to the homes in most of the world. We would not have the sanitary collection,
processing and disposal systems that allow us to have the more pleasant quality of life we enjoy.
Without piping we would not have the gas heat that the homes in many countries have.
Without piping we would not have the automobile, the airplane, the modern rail systems or the
vast international shipping industry. We, mankind, would have never have gone to the moon and
back. We would not have the life saving medicines or a lot of the food products that we depend on.
To meet the needs and the demands from all of this we (mankind) have developed very complex
process plants. Yes, these process plants include buildings, structures, equipment (such as vessels,
30
 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

tanks, exchangers, heaters, filters, reactors and others), electrical systems, and complex
instrumentation control systems. These plants also include very complex piping systems, piping
systems that tie all the equipment together.
Take a look at all the different piping uses that currently exist today. There are refineries,
chemical plants, pulp &paper mills, water purification and waste treatment plants. There are power
plants, pharmaceutical plants and food processing plants. There are ships and planes and trains. If
you were to take away all that long round stuff with the hole through the middle known as pipe from
all of these users we humans would be at a stand still. In short we would be stuck in a sort of
backwards dark ages.

Piping Loops
The question:
“How do I determine the location for anchors and the size of an expansion loop?”

My answer:
You want to know how to handle layout problems that involve long runs of pipe, thermal
expansion, anchors, guides and ways to compensate for expansion.
This is a basic problem for all novice pipers and is one that is not easy to explain. However let
me try. First, I think you need to look at the whole system and come to a solution based on that whole
configuration.
There are four basic options to compensate for thermal expansion in a piping system. These
options are as follows:
1. Do nothing. Just allow enough room on the pipeway and let the pipe expand and contract as
it will. It will create its own friction anchors and will “snake” around as required to compensate
for the expansion. This is not a highly recommended option.
2. Normal configuration. This is where there are natural changes in direction of pipeways or
routing that will compensate for the thermal expansion. Natural configuration is defined as a
basic “L” shape or a “Z” shape. Anchors and guides need to be installed to prevent the
thermal growth in one line from interfering with another. If all the legs are the right length and
the anchors and guides are placed correctly then you will not need additional methods to
compensate for the expansion.
3. Expansion loops. In long straight runs of pipeways pipe expansion loops are added to
compensate for the thermal expansion. Anchors and guides are required to control the pipe
and insure that the loop will work as designed.
4. Expansion joints. Expansion joints of various types are made and used to compensate for
expansion in piping systems where there are space limitations or natural configuration or
loops are not an option. Systems with expansion joints also require pipe anchors and pipe
guides to work properly.

You need to ask yourself:

Where do I have natural turns that can be used to compensate for expansion?
Where do I have branches? And do these branches create potential problems?
Where do I need to add loops?
Where can I place anchors and guides?
What is the distance between the potential anchor points?
Now!
What size loop do I need for the places where natural configuration will not work?

Now, the question is not how much pipe should you have between expansion loops but what
size an expansion loop should be for a given distance between anchor points of a line.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The answer to this question is really simpler than would first appear. Let’s say you are doing
layout for a “Unit” which branches (west) off the main north/south offsite interconnection pipeway.
The line under consideration is a medium pressure steam line with 8” schedule 40 pipes and a
temperature of 450 degrees F. There are battery limits block valves at the interconnecting pipeway
end and the line dead-ends at the other end of the unit.
Your pipeway (or sleeper way) has a specific spacing and width. We will use 10 pipe supports
at a spacing of 25 feet each and a width of 25 feet. Number the supports from right to left as PS #1
through PS # 10. You know you need one or more loops. You also know that the loops need to be
supported. You also recognize that you can use option 1 (above) for some of the header. So, start
out by placing your first anchor two pipe supports in from the dead-end of the unit at PS # 8. You will
let the last 55 feet (+/-) of header to “free expand.” Next move to the battery limits end of the
pipeway and place an anchor at PS #1 nearest to the battery limits block valve.
Now look at the distance between the two anchors. Is this distance less than 200 feet? If it is
less then you should need only one loop. This loop should be as near to the halfway point between
the two anchors as practical. Our distance between PS #1 and PS # 8 is 175 feet. The halfway
point is between PS # 4 and PS # 5.
The line will run in the first pipeway berth at the far south side of the unit pipeway. The loop
will rest on a support beam on the north side of the unit pipeway and cantilever out about 5 to 6 feet.
This makes the loop with dimensions as follows: a vertical rise up 2’ – 6”, a leg north of 23 feet, a flat
turn and a leg west of 20’ – 0”, then a flat turn south of 23 feet and a vertical drop of 2’ – 6” back into
the lines assigned berth.
You have already placed an anchor at PS # 1 and at PS # 8 so the next thing is to place
guides. The guides need to be one pipe support away from the loop. So the guides are placed at PS
# 3 and PS # 6.

This is what I mean by being simpler than would first appear. 90% of the time you can use the
“natural landscape” to help to do the loop design instead if worrying about a lot of calculations.

Please note: this being a steam system it will still need to have a proper check and/or analysis
by a qualified Pipe Stress Engineer.

Piping Maintenance:
The question:
“How much maintenance is required for piping?”

My answer:
The maintenance of the piping systems in a process plant is, or should be an important and
ongoing part of the plant operation. This would be considered preventative maintenance.
Preventative maintenance is doing everything prudent to insure that the plant succeeds in reaching its
design life. Any carbon steel pipe that is not insulated needs to be painted on some sort of a
scheduled interval. Valve packing will need to be replaced. The valve seats need to be replaced.
Insulation will be damaged and need to be repaired. Remember this is the second most important
“system” in the plant. You need to take care of it or the plant will not last as long as it should or
perform as it should.

Piping Study (Pipe Transposition)

The question:
What is a Piping Study and how do you do one?”

My answer”
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Here is the way I would do it. In CAD (or manually) I would take a copy of the plot plan. Note,
I would take a copy of the plot plan and rename it not the original.
I would then wipe out the detail in the area of the pipeway and expand the width of this area
so I have room to work.
Now I am looking at a picture that has a wide space in the middle and equipment on each side
in its relative location in the proposed plant. I would now make two copies. One will be for process
lines the other will be for utility lines.
Now I would take each of the P&ID's and start with the process lines, the largest Carbon steel
and the alloy lines then work my way down in size till I have all the process lines routed.
The routing is in simple straight line transposition of the line from an area near it's origin to an
area near its destination. I would make simple square corners and not show any elbows or other
fittings.
I would label each line with its proper line number and size.
I would then do the same thing for the utilities on the other copy. Here I would start by placing
headers in the "pipeway" area and then from the P&ID connect the required utility service from the
header to tails near the piece of equipment. This sometimes shows that another header is required.
Again I would label each utility line with its line number and size. When the branches all done now
the headers can be sized because we now know the sequence of all the branches.
As I do the lines I would use a (yellow) "highlighter" to mark off each line. I used yellow
because it is more transparent than most other colors.
This activity leads to many other activities. Included is the firming up the width and design of
the pipe rack and an early rough pipe material take-off.

Piping Training
The question:
“I have been offered a CAD course. Is this proper training to become a process plant piping
designer?”

My answer”
(The following statement is an excerpt from text submitted by Peter Piper to a question on the
[Link] “Forum.”)
A CAD operator is NOT a piping designer. While a piping designer can use CAD, CAD is
merely the designer’s pencil! That's like saying if you can drive a Ford Fiesta, you are qualified as a
Formula 1 driver! Or even, if I have the basic knowledge that allows me to write this sentence, so I
must be a novelist!”

Peter was specifically addressing questions on the subject of job descriptions. His comments
however are even more appropriate when it comes to the subject of training.
Today, too many people have gotten the idea that a person can take classes in AutoCAD (or
some other like program) that may include some piping menus and that will be a fast track ticket to
becoming a piping designer. “Take CAD training and you will be a piper.” I had this happen when I
was the manager of a piping department. An individual knocked on my door, entered, placed a
certificate in front of me and said “I want to transfer into your department and be a piper.” The
certificate was for two semesters of evening classes in generic AutoCAD at a local tech school. That
person was allowed to enter my next piping basic training class. The person lasted only a few weeks,
then deciding that piping was too difficult.
Piping training, be it basic, intermediate, advanced or leadership is not easy. If it is done right
it takes years. The subject matter one is expected to master covers a wide range of design,
engineering, manufacturing, fabrication, construction and management technology. Also, Piping is not
a trade. Piping is a profession and it is a noble profession at that.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The website [Link] defines Training as: ‘To make proficient with specialized
instruction and practice.’ Piping requires just that, specialized instruction and practice. This means
that there has to be an education process. [Link] defines Education (or Educate) (1) “The act
or process of educating or being educated.” (2) “The knowledge or skill obtained or developed by a
learning process.” (3) “A program of instruction of a specified kind or level.” This means someone has
to create a class environment, provide instructional material, collect students and properly present the
material. Someone has to do the educating and the student has to do the learning. You should then
measure the results and make corrections as required.
This brings the question. Where does one get this type of proper piping training? There is only
one formal school that I know of that offers a complete program in Piping Design Technology. That
school is the University of Houston-Downtown ([Link]) Houston, Texas, USA. Attachment “A”
of this document is an outline of the Student Degree Plan. In order to avail yourself of this program
you pretty much have to live in Houston.
So, if I don’t live in Houston (or can’t afford to go to school in Huston) what do I do? How do I
get piping design training? What kind of training is required? What training method results in the best
learning? These are all good questions. The kinds of training that is required would include, over a
period of time, all of the basic, intermediate and advanced technical piping subjects plus leadership
and supervision. The teaching/learning method depends on many factors. The method of training
must consider such things as the subject matter to be taught, the permanence of the activity relating
to the subject, the complexity of the subject or material, the number of people to be trained, the time
demand for skilled people, etc. The most important of these is the number of people to be trained,
when they need to be trained, and when they need to be available. The subject matter and the
number of people to be trained will affect the training method to be used.
There are at least three basic methods for training. In the context of a typical engineering
office work environment there are definite positive and negative factors for each.
Method one- "Random Observation Training" (may be called absorption) -- The person (or
trainee) sees something being done a certain way and they are required to copy what they observe.
The positive aspects of this method may be:
o This method only costs the salary of the trainee for the training period
o This method does not involve any costs for classroom or class material
The negative aspects of this method include:
o There is no guarantee that the observed behavior covers the entire range of a desired subject
o There is no guarantee that the observed behavior was correct
o This method takes a very long time to observe all the actual things necessary to become proficient
in a specific subject
o This method does not have consistency of results
o This method does not work for large groups
o This method does not meet the needs of any fast track effort

Method two- "Mentor Directed Experience" (Also called mentored learning)

Under the guidance of an assigned experienced and knowledgeable individual, the trainee is given a
task to do. The trainee is tutored on how to do the task and is monitored to insure that the desired
results are achieved.
The positive aspects of this method include:
o This method does not normally involve any costs for classroom or class material
The negative aspects of this method include:
o The person doing the mentoring needs to have a trainer mind set
o Management must validate the knowledge level of the mentor
o This method takes time to cover all the things necessary to become proficient in a specific subject
o This method reduces the productivity of the mentor during the training period
o This method does not have consistency of results. Each mentor will have different ideas and values.
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

o This method takes an equal number of qualified mentors to the number of trainees
o This method costs the salary of the trainee for the training period

Method three- "Instructor Directed Training" -- (Also called structured classroom training)
With instructor directed training, the areas of need and the training subject are more easily identified
and covered. Training material is developed for that specific subject. A qualified instructor is enlisted.
The material is presented in a formal classroom environment. All the attendees are able to hear all
the questions and all the answers.
The positive aspects of this method include:
o The person doing the training has a trainer mind set
o Management can validate the knowledge level of the trainer
o Requires a shorter time to cover what is necessary to become proficient in a specific subject
o Gives a more consistent result
o Requires only one qualified trainer to fifteen or twenty trainees
o Greater results in the shortest time
The negative aspects of this method include:
o The cost the salary of the trainer and the trainees for the training period
o The costs for classroom or class material
o The loss of productivity of the trainer for other duties

The very best thing for the piping profession would be for the Houston type piping program to exist
close to all the major engineering centers around the world. That not being the case, the next best
thing would be for piping related engineering companies to develop and conduct their own in-house
piping training programs. There must be a lot of retired “gray-hair” pipers out there who could be hired
for short term gigs.

Reference material for use in the training process is also important. The following are some
suggested text books.

For basic piping to intermediate:

Piping Drafting and Design: Using Manual, Autocad and Pro-Pipe Applications
By Roy A. Parisher, Robert A. Rhea (Hardcover or Paperback- February 1, 1996)
Book Description
Pipe Drafting and Design, Second Edition provides step-by-step instructions to walk pipe designers
and drafters and students in Engineering Design Graphics and Engineering Technology through the
creation of piping arrangement and isometric drawings using symbols for fittings, flanges, valves, and
mechanical equipment. The book is appropriate primarily for pipe design in the petrochemical
industry. More than 350 illustrations and photographs provide examples and visual instructions. A
unique feature is the systematic arrangement of drawings that begins with the layout of the structural
foundations of a facility and continues through to the development of a 3-D model. Advanced
chapters discuss the customization of AutoCAD, AutoLISP and details on the use of third-party
software to create 3-D models from which elevation, section and isometric drawings are extracted
including bills of material. Covers drafting and design fundamentals to detailed advice on the
development of piping drawings using manual and AutoCAD techniques 3-D model images provide
an uncommon opportunity to visualize an entire piping facility
Chapters include exercises and questions designed for review and practice--This text refers to the
Paperback edition.

(Alternate)
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Process Piping Drafting

by Terence M. Shumaker (Paperback October 1, 2003)
Process Piping Drafting introduces you to the components of piping systems (pipe, fittings, valves and
equipment). From there, the textbook shows how to put these components together to create the
various types of drawings used in the industry. The drawings are presented in the same sequence
that they produced by engineering firms. Process Piping Drafting is designed to teach you to read,
comprehend and create process piping drawings. Each chapter of the text is followed by Review
questions, Print Reading Exercises and Drawing Problems. Some of the Problems can be done
directly in the text, itself; others should be drawn using a CAD system or drawn manually. The book
also contains appendices with reference data required for the course work.

For advanced piping:

Process Plant Layout and Piping Design by Ed Bausbacher and Roger Hunt (Paperback - 1st edition
July 22, 1993)
Book Description
This profusely illustrated, comprehensive guidebook presents tried-and-true workable methods and
rules of thumb for plant layout and piping design for the process industries. Content is organized and
presented for quick-reference on-the-job or for systematic study of specific topics. Presents general
concepts and principles of plant layout -- from basic terminology and input requirements to
deliverables; deals with specific pieces of equipment and their most efficient layout in the overall plant
design configuration; addresses the plant layout requirements for the most common process unit
equipment; covers piping requirements for the entire plant as well as all equipment types; and
considers the computerized tools that are now available to help plant layout and piping designers.
This book features more than 640 illustrations of equipment and piping found in the typical processing
facility.

I have all of these books (and more) in my library. I have used both the Roy A. Parisher/Robert A.
Rhea book and the Ed Bausbacher/Roger Hunt book when I have conducted training classes. I found
them to be excellent.

For leadership and supervision:

(Yes, this is my own book. If another one exists on this same subject please let me know)

Piping Engineering Leadership for Process Plant Projects

by James O. Pennock (Hardcover – (Hardcover – January 19, 2001))
Book Description
Piping Engineering Leadership for Process Plant Projects focuses on the position of “lead in charge.”
The “lead” piping person is responsible for the successful execution of all piping engineering and
design for a project. This includes the technical and the non-technical aspects alike. This book is
based on over four decade of personal experience by the author and is a how-to guide for others who
may aspire to be that person in charge of the piping engineering and design on a project. It defines
roles and responsibilities a lead will face and the differences found in the various project types. Some
of the key operational activities covered include; Planning, Organization, Scope of Work development,
Estimating, Scheduling, Controlling Change and Project Completion.

I hope the information presented here is helpful. I am also sure it will generate many questions,
comments and other view points. Please do not hesitate to E-mail these to me.
(jopennock@[Link]).
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Attachment “A”

Bachelor of Science in Engineering Technology -Major in Process Piping Design

Student Degree Plan

FRESHMAN
HRS SEM* HRS SEM*
ENG 1302 Composition II ENGR 1400 PC Applications in Engineering
ENGR 1401 Engineering Graphics CHEM 1307 General Chemistry I
HIST 1305 US History to 1877 CHEM 1107 General Chemistry Lab I
PHYS 1307 General Physics I HIST 1306 US History after 1877
PHYS 1107 General Physics Lab I Fine Arts Course
PSY 1303 General Psychology SPCH 1304 Introduction to Speech

SOPHOMORE
HRS SEM* HRS SEM*
ET 2401 Piping Layout I POLS 2304 US Government II
ENGR 2409 Engineering Mechanics PHYS 1308 General Physics II
MATH 2401 Calculus I PHYS 1108 General Physics Lab II
ENGR 23XX Sophomore English Lit. MATH 2402 Calculus II
POLS 2303 US Government I ET 2402 Piping Layout II

JUNIOR
HRS SEM* HRS SEM*
ET 3401 Process Piping Design ET 3307 Applied Thermodynamics
ENGR 3308 Fluid Mechanics I ENG 3302 Business and Technical Writing
EET 1411 Circuit with Lab ENGR 3410 Process Modeling & Simulation
ET 3308 Materials Science ENGR 3302 Engineering Economics
ELECTIVE

SENIOR

ET 4323 Technology Seminar ET 4307 Fluid Mechanics II

ET 4301 Piping Models ET 4315 Piping Stress Analysis
ET 4311 Heat-Power Applications ET 4313 Applied Heat Transfer
ET 4304 Pressure Vessel Design ENGR 4340 Senior Project in Piping Design
ELECTIVE

Plot Plans
The question:
“Could you please explain the definition for Plot Plan?”

My answer:
Plot Plans come in at least three basic versions. They are the Whole Plant (or Project) Plot
Plan, The Unit Plot Plan and the Area Plot Plan.
The Whole Plant Plot Plan is a plan drawing of the total property showing all roads, significant
buildings, major tankage, single very large equipment such as a cooling tower and appropriate
37
 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

geographic features. It might also show some off-property features such as adjacent public
highways, rivers or rail facilities. This document will also show the true North, the intended Plant
North and the Wind Rose (1). When a company is doing a total “Grassroots” (or “Greenfield”) (2)
project this is the first planning document that needs to be generated and client approved. The level
of detail on this document related to process units and areas will be in limited to simple block forms.
The Unit Plot Plan is document that shows the next level of development. This document will
show the layout of the main process blocks. This might be the Main Process Units, the Secondary
Process Units or the Utility & Power Block. This document may also be in simple block form or may
show a little more equipment and feature detail. This Plot Plan document will normally show only the
Plant North. If the Units are small or if there is only one then this document may be eliminated.
The Area Plot Plan is the final and most detailed of the Plot Plan type documents. This Plot
Plan will show in a high level of detail all equipment, all structures, all roads, and all operating access
aisles. This Plot Plan document will also normally show only the Plant North. When approved by all
groups on the project and the Client then this document then becomes the basis for all estimating,
work planning and finished or detailed design.
(1) – A Wind Rose is a graphic picture based on a compass wheel that is created to show the
past history of the annual wind direction, annual percent in that direction and average speed for
different directions.
(2) – Grassroots or Greenfield refers to a project that is built from scratch on bare land or a
newly cleared site. This type of project is the opposite of a Revamp project where new equipment
structures, piping, etc. is added in and around existing equipment.

Plot Plan Documents, Other (Revision #3)

The question:
"How can we differentiate a Piping Layout, Plant layout, Plot Plan and General Arrangement
drawing (GA)"

I will try to give you some answers and make them understandable since I cannot be in front of you
with samples.

First, some of these terms are "work activities" (or "a work process") and some are the "deliverables"
(or the "product") of a work activity.
Lets start by putting them in the order we would normally see accomplish them.

Plant layout: This is first a "work activity." It is the process of determining what Area you have for a
Plant, the equipment or units you need to fit into the Area and the exact relationship these items must
have relative to each other. In the past it has been done with manual sketches, paper cut-outs and
small scale block models. Today it can be done in "Model Space" by moving around circles,
rectangles and squares, as long as you keep it simple. Remember, this is an activity, it is not a
deliverable. You can call it the Plant Layout, but it is still not the deliverable.

Plot Plan: This is a "deliverable." After the overall plant layout or unit layout has reached a point
where the actual equipment number, sizes and shapes are known the "Model Space" version of the
plant layout can be up-dated and formalized. It would then be moved to "Paper Space", a Title Block
added and the formal Plot Plan produced. This document now goes to various people for review and
approval including the Client. Because of the timing, the scale and the purpose of this Plot Plan
document it would not and should not have any coordinates or dimensions on it to locate equipment
or facilities.

General Arrangement drawing (GA): (Also known as the Equipment "Location Control Plan" (LCP):
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

This document is a limited internal deliverable tool that would not and should not be issued to the job
site. This is the more detailed step to fixing the location of each piece of equipment in to its final
location. This final location will be based on the purpose, function size of that piece of equipment
along with the piping layout, operation space and the maintenance space. In addition to this there are
the space requirements for any related electrical equipment and instrumentation requirements. The
final location of each piece of equipment is also affected by the foundation design, and the foundation
design is impacted by the type and stability of the soil at the site. The final location of a piece of
equipment should only be conveyed to the field by the document (maybe called Foundation Location
Plan) from the Structural department.

Piping Layout: This is first an activity (or a process) and then a product. A piping designer does piping
layout. This is the process of defining the piece of equipment, the maintenance spaces and the
related electrical needs. Then routes the piping to accomplish the process function of the piece of
equipment then add the space requirements for operation and you have a piping layout. The final
location of any piece of equipment is impacted by the piping layout. This final location is added to the
"GA" (or LCP) which is then routed to the structural group. As you can see there is a normal
understood cycle and recycle between the piping group with the piping layouts, the "GA's" and the
structural group and their "Foundation Location Plan".

Process Plant vs. Pipeline Piping Engineering

The question:
“Can you please differentiate between the Piping Engineers & Pipeline Engineers?”

My answer:
What you are really asking about is the difference between Process Plant Piping Engineering
and Pipeline Engineering.
The main difference is geographical. You might look at it this way. The Process plant is inside
the fence and the Pipeline is outside the fence. However, both have piping materials so they both
have the need for Piping Material Engineers. Both have expansion, flexibility, stress, and support
problems so they both need Pipe Stress Engineers. Both have design requirements so they both
need piping designers to determine the routing and placement of the piping. Both require someone
to define the scope, make the piping estimate, develop the schedule, and do all the planning of the
piping effort and to provide leadership for the total piping effort so they both need Lead Piping
Engineers.
The second difference is the physical personality of the process plant versus the pipeline.
The process plant project has a lot of equipment by actual count and a lot of different types of
equipment. The equipment and the piping is grouped relative close together to form refinery, gas
plants, chemical plants, power plants, water treatment plants and many others. Most process plants
rely on pipelines to supply the feed for the plant and/or deliver the end product.
The pipeline project has relative few pieces of equipment by count and by type. Some
pipeline projects are undersea from offshore rigs to on shore terminals. Some pipeline projects are
relative short(less than 100 miles) and others are very long, some more than one thousand miles.
Some of the piping on a pipeline project is above ground, some is underground, some is on bridges
over rivers or canyons and some is routed under the river. Without the process plant the pipeline
would not have the two types of projects rely on each other. Without the process plant many
pipelines would not have a place to deliver their product. Without the pipeline many process plants
would not exist.
A well trained person could find a lifetime of work as a process plant piping engineer or as a
pipeline piping engineer. It is a matter of personal choice.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Pump Piping I
The question:
“Why should I install two pumps in process plants and how should they be piped?”

My answer:
The following is based on my more than 45 years in the piping engineering and design field.
Most refineries and chemical plants install two pumps at each critical process operating point
to maximize operational integrity. What I mean by this is that they do not want a single pump failure
to shutdown the whole plant. Pumps will fail and for a number of reasons. The owner/operator wants
to prevent the big financial loss that results from a shutdown.
Now to answer your question:
A. I recommend that you pipe up the pumps in this situation, first as if there were only one
pump. The tie-in for the second pump needs to be a duplicate (routing and fitting wise) of the first
pump.
B. The line size for the suction side (from the suction source) should be the full nozzle size all
the way to the point the line needs to reduce to match the pump nozzle size. Do not reduce the
suction line size when you split for the two pumps.
C. The discharge line (from pump #1) should increase in line size from the pump nozzle size to
the full line size as soon as possible. This required line size then should continue until there is a valid
process or instrument reason to change.
D. The discharge line (from pump #2) should increase in line size from the pump nozzle size to
the full line size as soon as possible. This required line size then should continue until it ties in to the
other discharge line.
E. As much as possible try to make the two pump suction lines symmetrical from the split to
the pump.
F. As much as possible try to make the two pump discharge lines symmetrical from the pumps
to the rejoining point.

Pump Piping II
The question:
“OK I am having a major verbal match with my piping designer. I need a hard cite/reference to
a reference book for the required number of straight pipe diameters upstream of the suction
flange/suction reducer. I checked all my references (Karassik, Marks, Dufour, Rip Weaver, etc.)
but no hard numbers. Everybody just says "smooth flow into the suction. So I did a search here and
read all the posts re: straight suction lengths (all 60-plus posts) but nobody gave any cites.
The Pumps are horizontal split-case multistage, BFW service, 4x6-10, 3600 rpm, 3900' TDH,
1160 gpm, pumping temp 180° F, 12" suction line size to get velocity down to 2+ ft/s.”

My answer:
Pete, I commend you for the way you asked your question. You are one of the very few
(maybe the only one) who has given us some specific information about your pump. (Pumps are
horizontal split-case multistage, BFW service, 4x6-10, 3600 rpm, 3900' TDH, 1160 gpm, pumping
temp 180° F, 12" suction line size to get velocity down to 2+ ft/s). Most of the people who ask
questions do not give us the information (tools) we need to give qualified answers.
Following the average question, almost all of the people who give answers, give answers that
are too general and too vague. The answer to most questions like the question really should be very
specific. The hazard here is not so much with the original questioner but with all the novice pipers
and others out there who read an inappropriate general answer to a vague question and then accept
it as gospel and apply it to all similar sounding situations.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The problem here is that there are so many different types, styles and configurations for
pumps that the “popular rule” (10 diameter before the suction flange) makes sense for maybe only 5%
of the total family of pumps and no sense for the other 95%. We could also bring up all the different
types of pumps that we know about now and we would still miss the new latest state-of-the-art pump.
So, in my opinion the “10D” rule does not apply to all pumps.
I can understand the basic logic for using the “10D” rule on the typical straight in, end suction
API style pump. However, even with this type of pump we have to ask if an “inducer” is included on
the pump impeller is the desired smooth flow destroyed?
I do not believe it applies to any of the many types of positive displacement pumps. It is just
not an issue.
I also do not believe it applies to the vertical “inline” centrifugal pumps or the typical “API”, top
suction, top discharge pump. I also do not believe that it applies to your specific pump.
My reasoning, based on my more than 45 years experience in the piping field is this: Why go
to all the trouble and extra cost to provide the “10D” configuration on one side of the pump flange
gasket and then on the other side the pump case contorts into a complex reverse curve before the
liquid comes into contact with the impeller.
You gave us the specifics about your pump but not all that is important. I suspect that is a
side suction pump. This suction nozzle is well below the centerline of the pump. A cut-away of the
pump would no doubt show that the inlet path is a very complex shape.
You also told us that the commodity is Boiler Feed Water (BFW) which is a tough fluid to
handle do to the potential to boil and create bubble cavitation problems. I would guess that the
Deaireator Drum is located directly or near directly 25 to 30 feet above the BFW pumps. The pump
suction line should drop down to the pumps in the most direct and minimum length possible with the
following exception. The suction line will be operating at a very high temperature and therefore needs
to have proper flexibility built into the configuration. The last drop should be minimum distance from
the suction nozzle. There are two potential options in my book. There should only be the elbow the
reducer and then the pipe flange (fitting-to-fitting). The alternate is a reducing elbow then the pipe
flange. Under the elbow (same in either case) there should be a properly designed (secondary) pipe
support.

Pup Piece
The question:
What is a Pup Piece?”

My answer:
What is it?
Okay let’s see if we can answer this question once and for all.
In piping we all know we have two basic situations; one is Fitting-to-Fitting and the other is not Fitting-
to-Fitting.
With the first, there is nothing between one fitting and another except the weld. Therefore we
call it "Fitting-to-Fitting or "Fitting make-up"
With the second, the required dimensions do not allow for Fitting-to-Fitting configuration. We
then have an ELL, gap, ELL or ELL, gap, Reducer, ELL or ELL, gap, Flange or ELL, gap, reducer,
flange or some combination of standard fittings BUT not Fitting-to-Fitting. There is that short gap
between two of the fittings.
This short gap is where a piece of pipe must be placed (cut, beveled, fitted and welded) to
connect the two fittings that don't touch. The short piece of pipe is called a "Pup" piece. The piece of
pipe or "Pup" can be pretty much any length however when it gets to be around a foot in length it is
no longer called a "Pup". A long piece of pipe is just pipe.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The only restriction for a "Pup" piece is common sense or a company imposed minimum
length. This minimum length is defined in different ways by a Lead Design Supervisor or company
and there is no absolute restriction or commonality. Individual or company minimums sometimes
consider the pipe wall thickness, the weld bevel, the heat effected zone, or the perceived ability of the
shop to make a weld. There is no magic rule and there is no common industry standard.
A "Pup" piece is just a short piece of pipe cut to fit and fill the gap between two fittings when
"Fitting Make-up" is not possible.
I presume you are referring to proximity of butt welds in pipe. This question has been asked
several times. The answer is the Codes do not provide specific guidance. In this situation, use
engineering judgment, such as locate the butt welds as far away as possible to avoid overlapping
weld heat affected zones and stress concentration effects.
You might also want to talk to a good Welding Engineer as it could be dependent on the
process. If this is for proximity of joints to one another there could be other concerns--again the
Welding Eng. could help you.
For girth weld spacing, a criterion that was developed many years ago based on welding tests
is: the greater of 2 inches or 4 times the wall thickness.

Rack Stuffing Drawing

The question:
“What is a Rack Stuffing Drawing?”
My answer:
A "Rack Stuffing Drawing" was a layout sketch issued early in the project soon after the
pipeway layout activity.
This drawing was not normally considered one of the formal Client deliverables. It was
considered an informal drawing issued only to construction. Construction used this drawing for a dual
benefit.
First- it allowed construction to load the lower deck of a multi-deck rack with the proper pipe as
they built up the steel (or concrete) levels.
Second- In a tight construction site where raw pipe laydown area would be at a premium they
could stuff (load) the rack with the right pipe as it arrived at the jobsite.
The Field run straight pipe was shown solid. The rest of the pipe continuation, intended for
shop fabrication was shown dotted.

Safety Valves
The question:
“How should safety valves be installed?”

My answer:
You did not give us very much information to work with. It would be helpful to know the
following:
- Is the exhaust going to atmosphere or to a closed collection system
- The commodity
- The pressure and temperature
- Is this a single PSV installation or is this a double (i.e.: one and a spare)
- The PSV size
- The general geographic location (arctic or desert)

However, I will give you some basics.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

A. For small threaded thermal relief valves. These relief valves are sometimes referred to as
TSV's. These safety valves are normally 3/4" x 1" NPS and have a male thread inlet and a female
thread outlet. These valves are normally used on water cooled shell and tube heat exchangers. They
prevent over pressure due to heat build-up in the cooling water when the exchanger is blocked in and
the hot process side is still flowing. A TSV may be installed with the stem in the vertical or horizontal
plane. The TSV may be installed into a threaded "boss" furnished on the bottom exchanger cooling
water nozzle or on a threaded connection added to the lower cooling water piping. The installation
does not normally need an inlet block valve and will discharge (down) to the ground or paving. No
outlet piping is required.
B. For small to large flanged PSV. A single PSV to atmosphere (non-toxic gas or liquids and
steam). Select a location that is at a high point, the top of a vessel or at a highpoint of the piping for
the system to be protected. The PSV inlet piping should be the full size of the PSV inlet and vertical
with a line class block valve (such as a gate valve). Then the PSV, bolted to the block valve. The PSV
is normally in the bottom and out the side so outlet will exit in the horizontal. Because the commodity
is non-toxic and we are discharging to atmosphere no outlet block valve is required. The outlet piping
will normally be a flange connected to the PSV outlet, then a 90 degree elbow turning up and one to
two meters of pipe to reach a safe discharge elevation. The top end of the vertical pipe will be left
open and may be straight cut or angle cut at 45 degrees. The low point of the elbow, close to the
weld that joins the ell to the outlet flange will have a 1/2" (25mm) hole to drain condensate and rain.
C. For a single PSV to a closed flare system. Select a location that is at a high point, the top
of a vessel or at a highpoint of the piping for the system to be protected. The PSV inlet piping should
be the full size of the PSV inlet and vertical with a line class block valve (such as a gate valve). Then
the PSV, bolted to the block valve. The PSV is normally in the bottom and out the side so outlet will
exit in the horizontal. The outlet piping will normally be a flanged block valve bolted to the PSV and
then a flange turning down followed by whatever piping is required to connect the line to the flare
header.

If gate valves are used in a PSV installation the inlet and outlet block valves should be
installed with the stem orientation in the horizontal plane. This is to prevent the possibility of the "gate"
coming loose from the stem and falling into the "closed" position.

Shop Drawing Checking

The question:
“Should shop drawings be checked and why?”

My answer:
The prime motive for checking shop drawings is to eliminate (or reduce) field changes to shop
fabricated spools. One person cannot be expected to check ALL of the shop drawings and still meet
the construction schedule. So you must use your time wisely. You must have a plan. You should
also talk to the piping foreman in the field and ask him/her “what are some of the typical errors that
cause the most problems during installation?”
A. First, sort the shop drawings by line number and “cost groups” i.e.: separate by material,
wall schedule and line size. The reason you need to do this is that it will allow you to focus your effort
on the high cost piping. The most costly piping is the large diameter, heavy wall carbon steel, any
alloy materials and any material that requires post-weld-heat-treatment (PWHT). Start with the most
costly lines and their shop drawings.
B. Next, review each line first for continuity. By this, I mean, do you have all the shop
drawings to complete “that” specific line? If yes then proceed. If no then have someone connect the
shop to find out when the missing drawings will be available. It is always possible that they forgot to
draw one or to send one.

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C. Next, check the drawings against the engineering drawings for configuration. By this I
mean does the line turn when, where and in the right direction to match the design? If not then this
will require a change in the shop (If the spool piece is not yet shipped) or a change in the field (if the
spool piece has already been shipped). Shop errors can, in most cases be back-charged to the
shop. However, any error can cause a delay to the schedule which adds cost to the project.
D. Next, review the material used against the piping line specification for the material that is
required. If the shop used the wrong material, STOP. This line or spool will need to be refabricated.
E. Next, review the shop drawings against the design looking for places where a wrong
dimension in a welded-out configuration would do the most harm. Don’t worry about fitting make-up
such as flange-reducer-flange. These have a low possibility for error. Don’t worry about spools that
terminate with a field weld. These have a built in opportunity to make a correction.
F. Next, look for any place where there is a requirement for or the possibility for odd flange
bolt-hole rotations. Did the shop do it correctly? On the other hand, did the shop call for and
fabricate an odd bolt-hole rotation that was not called for?
G. Next, spot check 10% of the dimensions within each “cost group.” If you do not find any
error trends then you may want to consider backing off additional checking. However, if you do find
an error trend within a specific cost group (material, wall schedule, size, etc.) then note the name of
the person who did these high-error shop drawings. The next step is to notify the shop of your
concerns and request that they launch their own investigation. In the meantime notify the
construction manager and based on the “cost groups” look at all of this persons work.

Socket Weld Pipe Wall Thickness

The question:
“Can you use a heavier wall pipe nipple in socket weld applications?”
The basic answer is, yes you can use a thicker wall pipe with the 3000# fitting if you want to or
need to and it has been done.
Example: Some Owner/Clients will specify that the first nipple off a header pipe for a vent,
drain or pressure instrument shall be Sch 160 wall. This is to reduce the possibility of breakage
caused by vibration induced metal fatigue.
This might also be done when maintenance is in a pinch to get a system back on-stream and
the Sch 160 pipe was/is all that is available at the time.
You need to be aware that the thicker wall will cause a "step" on the inside of the pipe thus
creating a more turbulent flow.
Remember:
1. There is a rule for everything.
2. For every rule there will be an exception.

Stub-in
The question:
What is it called when I weld a pipe to the side of another pipe instead of using a T fitting?”

My answer:
What you are doing is making a "Stub-in" branch. You have a header pipe (or run pipe) and a
branch pipe. This is allowed in the ASME 31 Code. There are two ways this is done. Both methods
are commonly called a "Stub-in" but they are done in a different way.
One way is to cut the branch hole in the header pipe to the size of the outside diameter of the
branch pipe. Then make the saddle cut of the branch pipe to fit the inside diameter of the header
pipe. With this method the branch is inserted "into" the header pipe.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

The second way is to cut the branch hole in the header pipe to the size of the inside diameter
of the branch pipe. Then make the saddle cut of the branch pipe to fit the outside diameter of the
header pipe. With this method the branch is sat "onto" the header pipe.
Both methods may be done with and without a reinforcing pad depending on the pressure and
stress conditions.
With your case, considering the size of the header and the size of the branch I would
recommend a full ring pad. The ring pad should be equal to (or greater than) the thickness of the
header pipe and a minimum of 20" wide.

Support for Piping

The question:
“Is Unistrut okay to support pipe?”

My answer:
Point number one, no matter what kinds of facility or what kind of pipe or what the commodity,
any piping subject to temperatures above or below ambient will expand or contract. An operating
piping system is a "living" thing and this includes that 15# steam system. Point number two, no
matter what kind of piping system it is it needs anchors and guides.
Expansion (or contraction) in a piping system is normally handled in only three ways. These
three ways or methods are; "Configuration", "Loops" and "Expansion Joints." All three of these need
anchors.
"Configuration" is where you do not attach to any equipment that would be damaged by piping
induced forces. You are able to design the piping system very loose with long runs and natural "L" or
"Z" shaped changes in direction. An example of this would be in piping for offsite (or tankage) areas
where the piping is supported on sleepers (low concrete or steel supports). You have anchors
installed at the center point of long runs and you let the system "Float" with the expansion taken at
the change of direction.
"Loops" are normally used in the pipeway of an onsite process unit where part of the system
will attach to force sensitive equipment and you need to control movement. A "Loop," sized properly
to take the calculated expansion is located at the center point between two anchor points.
"Expansion Joints" (there are a number of types) are also used in onsite process units
especially where space does not allow for expansion loops. Pipe anchors are required to make an
expansion joint work. The location of the anchors is based on proper design and stress analysis.
All piping systems, including the expansion and the anchors will impart a lot of weight and
force. The important thing to remember is that the pipe support system needs to be designed to
properly accommodate the total piping system including the weight, the expansion and the resulting
anchor forces.
A support systems made from”unistrut and pipe hangers" is a support system that is not
properly designed. Unistrut is adequate for small electrical conduit that has little or no
expansion. Pipe hangers, by there design do not allow for the proper anchoring or guiding of a
"living" piping system.
With this in mind it sounds like the "recently acquired building" may have been designed
properly.

Tubing
The question:
“What is the definition of Tubing?”

My answer:
Tubing (in the USA) is sized by the O. D. Tubing in the UK and other parts of the world have a
different O. D. than the size name. Tubing of all sizes and wall thicknesses can be fabricated or

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assembled using fittings or bends.

The "Specifications" section of this website has many charts and tables to show you what you
need to know about tubing sizes.
USA
Tubing is normally "cold drawn" seamless with the O.D. the same as the size designation (i.e.:
1" inch tubing has an O. D. of 1 inch). You can get different pressure ratings of 1" tubing by changing
the wall thickness. Thus the I. D. is smaller. Tubing normally comes in twenty foot lengths or in coils.
Tubing is normally joined with compression type tubing fittings.

Tubing, Fittings or Bends

The question:
“What is the best way to install tubing systems, fittings or bends?”

My answer:
I think that if you were able to talk to the installation tech, maintenance tech and an operator in
the field they all would tell you to use bends in tubing when ever and where ever possible.
Reason:
- less fittings therefore less installation cost
- less work therefore less installation cost
- less leaks therefore less operational downtime loss
- less leaks therefore less maintenance
- less maintenance therefore less operational cost

Welding of Galvanized Materials

The question:
“Is it okay to weld galvanized shoes to steel pipe?”

My answer:
Welding galvanized pipe shoes and other miscellaneous objects to pipe has been done for
many, many years.
The main risk in doing this is the gas that is created when the Zink is burned during the
welding process. This gas can be life threatening.
The Zink coating needs to be ground off to create a weld lane. It would also be wise to have a
strong air flow that blows any stray fumes away from the welder.

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Part II
Note: The answers or articles in Part II are not written by James O. Pennock

Blast Resistant Buildings

The question here relates to the placement of Blast proof buildings in process areas.

I found this via Google and thought I would share it.

Blast Resistant Structure
Protect employees today: Blast
resistant structures from Clegg Industries [Link]
U.S. CHEMICAL SAFETY AND HAZARD
INVESTIGATION BOARD
Urgent Recommendation
Whereas:
1. On March 23, 2005, the BP Texas City refinery experienced a severe explosion
and fire accident involving a raffinate splitter tower within the isomerization
(isom) unit and associated blow down system that resulted in 15 deaths, 170
injuries, and significant economic losses; the accident was one of the most serious
U.S. workplace disasters of the past two decades.
2. All of the fatalities and many of the serious injuries occurred in or around the nine
contractor trailers that were sited near process areas and as close as 121 feet from
the isom unit. This unit contained large quantities of flammable hydrocarbons
and had a history of releases, fires, and other safety incidents over the previous
two decades.
3. Workers in adjacent units were injured in trailers as far as 480 feet from the isom
blow down drum. A number of trailers as far as 600 feet from the blow down drum
were heavily damaged.
4. At the Texas City refinery, trailers had been periodically sited in and around
hazardous process areas for reasons of convenience such as ready access to work
areas. The trailers did not need to be located as close as they were to the process
areas in order for workers to perform their job duties.
5. Trailers had been sited periodically in the same location near the isomerization
unit for a number of years. On September 1, 2004, and prior to a safety
assessment, BP placed the trailer where 12 workers died near the isomerization
unit; a month later BP applied a siting policy to approve the location. The eight
other trailers placed nearby were not analyzed for hazards related to their location,
nor was the impact of the total occupancy of multiple trailers in close proximity
considered.
6. Under BP’s siting policy, trailers used for short periods of time such as
turnaround trailers were considered as posing little or no danger to occupants.
This approach conforms to the guidance provided in American Petroleum
Institute (API) Recommended Practice 752, “Management of Hazards Associated
with Location of Process Plant Buildings.” API 752 states that each company
may define its own risk and occupancy criteria.
7. API 752 is a widely recognized practice for complying with facility siting
requirements under the Process Hazard Analysis element of OSHA’s Process
Safety Management Standard (29 CFR 1910.119).
8. API 752 provides no minimum safe distances from hazardous areas for trailers
used in refineries and other chemical facilities. Trailers are not generally designed
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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

to protect the occupants from the fire and explosion hazards present in refineries.
In contrast, occupied buildings (e.g. control rooms, operator shelters) located
within a process unit are typically permanent and constructed to be blast and fire
resistant.
9. Trailers can be easily relocated to less hazardous sites. Subsequent to the March
23rd incident, BP America Inc. announced that it would move trailers at least 500
feet from hazardous process areas. A number of contractor offices were moved to
an offsite location.
10. In 1995, another serious process plant incident involved occupied trailers placed
too close to hazardous areas, resulting in significant deaths and injuries. At the
Pennzoil Refinery in Rouseville, Pennsylvania, a hydrocarbon fire that resulted
from the bursting of two storage tanks led to five fatalities, including two
contractors who were in trailers sited near the tanks. A 1998 EPA investigation
report determined that if the trailers had been isolated from the storage tank area
the casualties may have been prevented.
11. Under 42 U.S.C. §7412(r)(6)(C) (ii), the Board is charged with “recommending
measures to reduce the likelihood or the consequences of accidental releases and
proposing corrective steps to make chemical production, processing, handling and
storage as safe and free from risk of injury as is possible ….”
12. Board procedures authorize the issuance of an urgent safety recommendation
before a final investigation report is completed where there is a likelihood that a
safety issue is widespread at a number of sites.

Accordingly:
Pursuant to its authority under 42 U.S.C. §7412(r)(6)(C)(i) and (ii), and in the interest of
promoting safer operations at U.S. petrochemical facilities and protecting workers and
communities from future accidents, the Board makes the following urgent safety
recommendations:

American Petroleum Institute

In light of the above findings concerning the March 23rd incident at BP’s Texas City
refinery, revise your Recommended Practice 752, “Management of Hazards
Associated with Location of Process Plant Buildings” or issue a new Recommended
Practice to ensure the safe placement of occupied trailers and similar temporary
structures away from hazardous areas of process plants. Ensure that the new
recommended practice:

* Protects occupants from accident hazards such as heat, blast overpressure, and
projectiles;

* Establishes minimum safe distances for trailers and similar temporary

structures away from hazardous areas of process plants;

* Evaluates the siting of trailers under a separate methodology from permanent

structures, since trailers are more susceptible to damage, are more readily
relocated, and likely do not need to be placed near hazardous areas.

American Petroleum Institute and the National Petrochemical and Refiners

Association

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

Issue a safety alert to your membership to take prompt action to ensure the safe
placement of occupied trailers away from hazardous areas of process plants.

Safety Shower & Eye Wash

The question:
“What are the criteria for Safety Showers and Eye Wash Stations?”

The following information is from:

[Link]
Water Supply
Proper operation of emergency equipment requires the availability of a large and continuous
supply of potable water. The water supply must, at a minimum, be capable of delivering the volumes
of water required by the ANSI standard. Piping should be at least as large as the inlet size of the unit
to be installed. The water supply line must also be capable of delivering an uninterruptible flow of
water of at least 30 PSI flow pressure.
Water Temperature
The ANSI standard provides that the water delivered by emergency equipment be “tepid” (that
is, moderately warm or lukewarm). Tepid water is generally defined as between 60 and 100 degrees
Fahrenheit. However, where it is possible that a chemical reaction might be accelerated by warm
water, a medical professional should be consulted to determine what the optimum water temperature
would be.
The delivery of tepid water to emergency equipment may raise complicated engineering
issues. In geographical areas subject to cold weather, the water supplied by public water systems can
be quite cold, at times just above freezing. Providing tepid water requires heating the cold water or
blending it with hot water to achieve a desirable temperature. Conversely, in warm areas of the
country, water standing in pipelines can be heated to a very hot temperature. Providing tempered
water would then involve chilling the water or adding cold water to the water supply line.
There are several ways to design a water supply system to address the tepid water
requirement. First, it is possible to provide both hot and cold water supply lines to each location at
which emergency equipment is installed. This is typically done in facilities (such as laboratory
buildings and schools) where hot and cold water systems are installed throughout the building. At
each emergency unit, a tempering valve would be installed to blend the hot and cold water to a preset
temperature. The tempering valve must be specially designed for use with emergency equipment,
since these valves have dual built-in safety features. In the event that there is an interruption in the
hot water supply, the valve will still deliver a full flow of cold water to the equipment. If there is an
interruption in the cold water supply, the valve will shut off the water entirely to eliminate the possibility
of scalding. Please refer to the “Tempering Units” section of this catalog for information on Guardian
tempering valves.
The second way to address the tepid water issue is to install a recirculating tepid water
system. This system can supply multiple emergency equipment stations. The system continually
recirculates warm water to each location. If one or more units are activated, the system will
automatically blend hot and cold water and add it to the water line to supply the units. These systems
must be sized and engineered for the particular facility in which they are to be installed. It is therefore
common to consult with the emergency equipment manufacturer during the design process. Please
contact our regional sales representatives or the factory for information on recirculating tempered
water systems.

Weld Maps
The question:

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 Piping Frequently Asked Questions

“What is a Weld Map?”

From the following website: [Link]

[Link]
We are glad to be able to give specific answers to a focused question proposed by a
correspondent who asked us what is exactly a Weld Map and how it is used. It appears that he had
been requested to provide some, but was not sure how to go along with that. As this subject might be
of interest also to other readers we propose hereafter some more details to explain and clarify the
issue.
Some drawings of complex welded structures may easily contain instructions for many tens or
even hundreds of single welds, indicated by using welding symbols as per AWS Welding Symbols
Chart A2.1. There is obviously a need to refer to each one of the welded joints individually, especially
when establishing requirement notes that apply to all the welds of a group defined by material,
thickness, joint type, procedure etc.

The identification system consists in assigning a unique designation number to each weld,
usually enclosed (for easier location) in a common shape like a circle, an ellipse or other. The Weld
Map attached to the drawing is an ordered list of all the welded joints. For finding on the drawing any
one weld from the list there is generally a coordinate system (A, B, C, 1, 2, 3,) along the margins that
helps locating the specific weld amid all other ones.
A note is added, specifying materials, filler metals, type of joint, preparation, weld dimensions,
weld procedure No., special instructions like preheating or Post Weld Heat Treatment etc. The
sequence requested may also be specified if important and notes may be added requiring that certain
welds be performed before specified other ones.
The Weld Map may be used for establishing a work plan, by assigning certain welds to
welding teams and holding them responsible for the quality achieved. As a check list the Weld Map is
used to make sure that no joints were omitted or overlooked in the actual production program.
Special Quality requirements for visual and non destructive inspection make use of the Weld
map as a commonly understood method of referring to each of the joints for reporting on the results of
the examination and on the final decision. That is also needed for providing repair instructions to the
fully identified weld joints. As a reference you may look online at the following document:
WELD RECORD PACKAGES AND PIPING TESTING PACKAGES
[Link]
In particular you may notice the following paragraph:
"4.6.1 - The weld map shall be maintained on Form 432.43, Subcontractor/Supplier Weld Map,
or an approved equivalent. The weld map must provide adequate information to provide traceability
between the actual weld and the weld history record."
A copy of Form 432.43 may be obtained by contacting directly the Idaho National Laboratory
at
[Link]/

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