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audio1836044254.m4a

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Speaker 1

Well, OK, you got me. Yes. Yeah, I think you can say just like maritime operations
consultant.

Speaker

Something like that. What about?

Speaker 2

What about the?

Speaker 1

That work.

Speaker 2

Position that you were at the you were at the in the Coast Guard. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's fine. That's just. Like Coast Guard Officer or Coast Guard captain.

Speaker 2

OK.

Speaker 1

That was my rank, but it depends on which. You know unit I was at. Was at several units.
Sometimes I was a commanding officer of the unit.

Speaker 2

Let me just write it down the committee officer. So we can you know. OK. And then. What's
your the highest? Is that a 05 right?
Speaker 1

I was 06.

Speaker 2

0060 wow, right.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. Which is the Coast Guard, captain.

Speaker 2

Got it.

Speaker 1

Colonel equivalent, you're used to.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah. OK, awesome. I got most of the information down. So let's set this started
alright. So much for taking the time to meet with me for this interview. As a part of my
leadership communication class. I am exploring leadership by interviewing someone and
respect. A leader. So the goal of this interview is to understand your leadership and
philosophy. Decision making process and approach to guiding. Additionally, I will be
analyzing your leadership style through the length of a key course concept. So I have
prepared 10 questions. It's five of them, just general and based on your leadership
experience and the five is directly connected to the theories and the concepts from our
course.

Speaker 1

Just.

Speaker 2

Your insight will help me to gain a deeper understanding of the effective leadership and
apply these lessons to my own development. So with this descriptions, do you have any
questions before we started?

Speaker 1

No. What is that?

Speaker 2
OK. Awesome. Thank you.

Speaker

All right, so.

Speaker 2

Can I just start? It with the the very first questions. So what inspired you to join the Coast
Guard?

Speaker 1

Yeah, well, my father. My father had been a military officer. He was. Was a naval officer in
the Navy and. So growing up, I was around the military a lot. A young kid and you know.
That kind of. I was actually around Marine Corps a lot. So I thought that I wanted to at least
serve. The country as an officer wanted to graduate college, spend some time. You know.
And I thought. Would go maybe three years as an. I think that was what I was going to. And
then maybe, you know, do something else and maybe stay in the reserves, but maybe go
three years and then business or something. Get out. That was the original plan.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And then that's the the reason because of the you being around and your dad is a
part of it. How you kind of just thinking, just enjoying.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's. I mean, the people that I looked up to and respected were. The military,
because I was around a military members and then when I got into. College in the LA area. I
didn't really. Ca. Myself doing some of the things that people were doing, like I didn't see a
lot of leadership going on, like driving to a building downtown Los Angeles or something
like that, right? Did. I had seen other examples. Of leadership that were very active and
operational and for the stories of those things, I wanted to kind of do that as opposed to
going to the office every day, you know. That makes sense.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then as you were saying earlier, you originally trying to do three
years. You know, survey in the Coast Guard, but how long actually did you serve in the
Coast Guard? Then what changed?

Speaker 1
I served 27 years and I think what happened was that. While I was in the Coast Guard.
Actually, enjoy the Coast Guard operations. You know, when I first got on ships. It's pretty
exciting and adventure, so I felt like I was learning. I was learning about leadership too,
which I was interested in, and I had some good early commanding officers. It. Good men
of. So I had a good experience at the beginning. Know not everybody has a good
experience. And they could use those negative leadership lessons. But unfortunately at
three very good initial commanding officers that I can kind of learn from and take some of
their examples. So. But they also were giving me good.

Speaker

I.

Speaker 1

Opportunities like after my first. Ship. I got the screen where? Well, actually they sent me
on some pretty exciting missions when I was younger. Of the junior officers. I got the
service, you know, on board Navy ships and some pretty exciting. Fish, you know, leading a
small team of people. You know, it was very. And then they gave the opportunity to
command. A small patrol boat when I was pretty. I was a junior officer.

Speaker

OK.

Speaker 1

So that was pretty exciting.

Speaker 2

Well.

Speaker 1

You know, there was. There was some historical things we know growing up about, like
President Kennedy, you know, he was. Ed. Is the commanding officer. A small patrol boat
in World War 2. A lot of people knew that.

Speaker 2

Good morning. Oh wow, I did not know. Thank you for sharing that. And you know, just you
describing like a lot.

Speaker 1
Yeah. Then then, yeah. Then the Coast Guard sent me to Graduate School. You know, I had
the opportunity after that.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

And so they kept giving me good opportunities. And then then I think what happened was.

Speaker 2

I see.

Speaker 1

It went from being. A a good job and an opportunity, but also became a calling because. I
was around a lot of people and I think you know, as you get a little bit older than you have
the opportunity to mentor other people.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

And so I saw that. I felt like my calling was within the. That's where I can serve, you know,
as a Christian, feel like I had.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Opportunity to talk to people. And that I might not. Otherwise, if I was in the military, if I
didn't stay in church. You know, so I think that's what.

Speaker 2

That's wow, yeah.

Speaker 1

It kind of shifted to more of a calling and so I thought, hey, why would I get out?

Speaker 2
I see.

Speaker 1

And on a practical level, you know, I got married and the benefits were pretty good.

Speaker 2

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1

For us and then also, we like moving around like some people don't like that, but.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Kind of enjoy those adventurous times as a couple, you know, and then. The kids. Along,
we got to do that. Repl. So you know, those were those were kind of some of the things,
some of the reasons and you know I also love time environment. No. I love the ocean
environ.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Ment kind of thing. So that was a. Those are some of the benefits.

Speaker 2

Gotcha. Yeah, totally makes.

Speaker 1

Anything else on that one?

Speaker 2

No, I think you have you covered like perfectly like that's more. Lot more than I. Thank you
so much for sharing all of this. And then you were saying like throughout this, you know,
Tommy or served in the Coast Guard. You know, you were done a lot of different things.
And can you just describe your responsibility in the Coast Guard in general? I know you
have to, you know, aboard on the warship, do different kind of things. Different missions
might be. Can you just like, give it like overall of abroad? You know, as far as? More daily
life as a commanding officer or commanding officer for each specific warship or something
like that. We can we can understand the scope of work you do.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So after you graduate from college and you go to Officer candidate School, you know
the officers in the different branches of military. Are expected to be the leaders of their
units, even as the smallest unit like the platoon or the the company. You know, has it keeps
going up and up, you know, like in the Coast Guard on a ship. You know, you join the ship,
but you have no, no experience, but you're still expected to be the leader, for example, of a
division and then a department on a. Before you get to command your own ship. So I think
you're kind of familiar with that, you know, and So what you do is you have to learn as a
young officer to rely on the people that are very experienced and that are enlisted, you
know. The the the people that have, you know, the enlisted or MOS technical skills and
then court, especially like the noncom, you know. The non commissioned guys that are
really experienced, you have to learn to trust them or to you know learn from them as you
try to, yeah.

Speaker 2

01 second mark. I think of my speaker. Sorry, sorry. Can you speak again? Oh no, I don't
know why my computer does this. Sometimes the the sound it just kinda like going really
bad and then I do not know how long it would take to come back to normal again.

Speaker 1

Yes, I get.

Speaker 2

Oh my God. Yeah, I can't hear anything you're saying right now is everything is like like
static.

Speaker 1

Oh.

Speaker 2

Oh, I'm not as bad. You're back. Back you're back. Sorry. OK, go back. No, no, no.

Speaker 1

I'm back. Yeah, I'll start again.

It from the. Sentence of ghosts 2 sentences ago.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So we have to learn as a young officer to rely on your non commissioned officers,
your sergeants, you know, your your Chiefs pay officers in the Coast Guard. In order to, you
know, succeed as a. So anyway, you start out from the very beginning as an officer, as a
manager, as like a manager. Later, you're kind of a manager in training. Know and then as
you raise up. As you keep going up. Then you get more and more. But the Coast Guard
officers are always responsible for, like budget the money, the personnel, in addition to the
operations. So you have to kind of manage things from the very beginning and have to
juggle a lot of things. Yep. Hurt like a division or department, but you also have some
collateral duties. Could be you know. Overseeing, you know. The the material, the
weapons. In other words, you have to you hold the accountability for that. As an officer,
you know you have to sign off on that stuff. In. And so then as you go up? In, in rank and
experience, we're in command of different units. Then, because you've done those smaller
jobs, then you oversee all the jobs and all the departments. So for example, when you take
command. A of. A small patrol boat, let's say. You. As a commanding officer, you have the
the total responsibility for all the people on board for their safety, for carrying out the
missions that you're assigned like. They'd like search and rescue. If you have to go out in
the ocean and rescue somebody, or if you have to go arrest somebody on the ocean, you
have the responsibility for that as an officer. And also for making sure that your budget for
the money is is spent well and studied well. If you don't waste, you have to be responsible
for security, for security of the radios, for security. All the confidential type material. And
you know, so you have you kind of carry all the responsibility on your shoulders. That's why
they put you.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Man, but you're also responsible to rely on your people. You have to delegate everything,
and then you have to create a good environment for your people to operate and succeed in.
That's a really important. You know, being an officer is setting that positive environment
where people can't succeed, where they can carry out the operations.

Speaker 2
OK, OK.

Speaker 1

Anything else like that?

Speaker 2

No, no, I think that that's good. So based on what you just described, you know through
over the course of your career, you know, obviously what you're saying like you know from
the small job, bigger job, you understand a lot of different things. Do you see, like based on
the different kind of job you had, your leadership style also kind of got involved as at the
same time, so like just based on you know the job that you have throughout the time of the
experience, all the leadership, the responsibility, how? You see. You know your leadership
style involved over the course of your career.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So, you know at the. I was trying. I was trying to learn leadership and I actually. Went
in with that idea that I. Looking for. Leadership examples, you know, and I I remember
writing that, you know, when I was younger, I was always looking for that. Was kind of on
my. To look for. Good. That was a leadership and looking to how I should lead people. And
so when I my first ship, I had a really old captain. It's a big ship, so it was a very seasoned
and experienced person, so I I watched him. In particular how he treated. People that were
in trouble on the ship, you know, young guys that were in trouble. Call that. When you get in
trouble, you go before. 'S mask. Think it might be called Article 15 in the break where I
forget it. But you know it's. Your discipline and I I noticed that. He was strict, but he also
had mercy. The. Because they were younger and they were growing up. The Coast Guard,
you. Know they were young guys growing. So he disciplined them without killing them.
Killing their career and that taught me a lot about like mercy. On leadership. And then I had
another meeting officer that I observed was very professional.

Speaker

He.

Speaker 1

Always did the right. He was never untruthful, and so I observed that in in on several
occasions where he had the opportunity to maybe not tell the truth, but he always did.
Something didn't go great. You always absolutely told the truth only. And then the guy that
took over for him, you know, sometimes demanding options will shift in a couple of years.
The next guy I learned just by watching. How courageous he was like we did things with the
ship that I never. Thought was possible. To rescue some people sometimes that I just
hadn't seen that before. And also he was a lot of fun. So he. Have a lot of the people on the
ship.

Speaker

Asked.

Speaker 1

A lot of the crew, but he created really fun environment leader when we were resting he
created. Caveat with all those things was reflecting on this before we spoke or before we I
called and I'm thinking about those things. I've heard those guys and so you know, when I
was younger, I made some mistakes as a leader. Like because I didn't. Have any position?
Power really had a low grade? I tried. The the method of being harsh or speaking harshly.
People that didn't do what they were supposed to, and I noticed that it didn't work for me
because one guy got really upset. And I can tell that I've heard. Spirit, you know. And he
actually told somebody having a kill mark, and I'm going to kill him. And he was just OK,
you know? But he was just frustrated. And then so he got taken to captain's mask
discipline for saying that. But I learned a lesson that, you know. You can hurt people's spirit
if you don't have effective leadership or if you'll be partially to them 'cause they're people
you know. If there's there's ways in the military, there's ways to. Create a better
environment where if somebody doesn't do something, there's a way to be more effective.
So that was a really big lesson for me. In my. 2nd or maybe third year being in the Coast
Guard. And that's something that I I learned from. So. But the other leaders, you know the.
That I observe. When I went to the next assignment, I often times if I had the. To command.
That I would try to bring some of those positive traits. You know, to the command with their
style, kind of making their style mine the pieces that I thought were good, you know.

Speaker

Mm. Yeah.

Speaker 1

So to to kind of kind of summarize, it would be, you know operational mission, you know
excellence. The idea would be being a. Very good environment for the people that was. And
having you know, having conversations when you discipline people based on, you know,
the situation. And then. Courage. You know, just being courageous.

Speaker

And.
Speaker 1

Making sure the crew can do. A lot of the things that they that they ultimately can do at P2Q
train them in these situations. Those are some of the things that and. Then you know the
integrity part, right? Honesty of that other. Comment. Totally honest, totally having
integrity. So what's that? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yes, it completely. Thank you. And then you know, just based on your described
earlier, I just wanted to have you know next question as far as you know, what was the
most challenging leadership situation you encountered during your service? Those are
stuff you just described where you just learned, but like. Have you ever. Like nose to
challenge a leadership situation you encounter.

Speaker 1

Yeah.

Speaker 2

Do an entire 27 years of service in the Coast Guard.

Speaker 1

Yeah, there was. There were different challenges when I was. There is the challenge of, you
know, doing dangerous missions that I hadn't done before. But carrying them out and just
trying to encourage. Name that I was. That we could carry it out.

Speaker

The.

Speaker 1

And so that was very challenging, but I tried to just be a good example and you know, show.
Courage in those situations. And then because, you know, we had, you know it is, it's like
it's not like going into the office where you're like, hey, guys, turn up the air conditioning. I
mean, that's the biggest thing you're going. Deal with in. All day, whereas when you're in a
milit. Mission. Sometimes we're talking about. You know 'cause maybe somebody getting
killed so. You know, so when I was younger. That was those were challenging times, but I
found that I had to had to just. Be a good example of, you know, courage and positive
optimism in the situations and and I drew that you know, hey, I drew that really sincerely I
think from just my faith in God, you know. That I I had a solid. Reason to be optimistic. And
then, you know, later when I get more senior before I got out of the Coast Guard, you know,
there's a lot of politics at the senior level. People are trying to get. You know better
positions or competing, you know, within the officer rank. People are trying to make, you
know, flag officer like Admiral or general, things like that, right.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 1

There's a lot of. People that. Maneuvering like a chess game, you know? And. So I found. To
be very challenging, very mentally challenging. On the staff. Sometimes you're dealing
with. Who are? Afraid to speak up or they're dishonest or, you know the integrity is not
there. So I had situations where I had some people. You know why kind of hate. You know,
in the wrong light, you know, like trying to show that I had not done things right or
something like that.

Speaker

Replay.

Speaker 1

You know, I just had. To not worry about what? They said, but just, you know, truthfully
answer on. Know everything and. You know, and that all worked out for. But those are.
Those are the most challenging. Situations we have a conflict with the staff, with the senior
staff. And they, you know. People you know are doing the wrong thing, and you know
those? Those can be very challenging so.

Speaker

Thank you for calling.

Speaker 1

You just have to. I know I felt like I just had to maintain my integrity and and also to just
follow procedures, right?

Speaker

Mm.

Speaker 1

With the procedures and things like that, you know. We're. So like I remember, one person
in particular that didn't have very high integrity. And so eventually, when we got another
chief of staff, got a new chief of staff. Into the staff and that person had the courage to
basically fire that person.

Speaker 2

Yes. I think I lost you, mark.

Speaker 1

I would just summarize that at the senior level. Sometimes. The the challenge, the
challenges to overcome can be. Kind of personal, like political conflicts on the on the staff.
I don't. Does that make sense?

Speaker 2

Yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 1

OK.

Speaker 2

OK. So we already gone through the 1st 5. Just, you know, just a broad questions. You
know, based on your experience and all that. Now I'm just jumping into the another five
questions a little bit like the course related. The questions you know the particular to
yours. So the first question will be how did you balance a certain your authority? Bless you.
All right, let me repeat that again. How did you balance a search in your authority? Also
allowing others to challenge idea constructively.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's a really good. A great one, yeah. Yeah, that that just come that that's that's
kind of what I was saying at the beginning. I I made a mistake by being too harsh when I was
younger, when I was a younger officer. So somebody was trying to. You have opinions that
were wrong. You know, because they they were failing and what they were supposed to do
there. They were showing up late. Weren't weren't there, but I was kind of harsh later. Later
it became more like professional. Where? Well, actually I think throughout my whole
career from when I was younger. I always had to. Keep an open mind with people. You
know, because when I was younger in the Coast Guard I I led a small team of what they call
counter drug like a counter drug team where we would ride Navy ships and we would board
drug vessels and try. To arrest the drug smugglers. OK, so we would have a small, small
unit of about eight guys. So even as. Younger officer, I didn't have as much experience as
some of these guys, so I would say I would just try to say. Guys this is what I think. Excuse.
This is what I think we need to do. You know what are your opinions? So I had to learn early
on to get the opinions of the team and then after I had considered everything then I I would
just say OK.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

Sounds good. Let's do this, you know. So I would. I would just have to assert the final
decision. And you know, mostly taking into account the good ideas that I heard around me.
So it's really important for me, very important from the very beginning for me to listen to
people and then. And. Thank you advice and kind of. Choose a plan or a course of action
you know and. So that. Think that served me pretty well throughout my career, then. I I
would. You know, try to take in the. Of other people. And you know, I learned that by
watching too. Watched some of my early. The commanding officers. 'Cause, for example,
like say you're in the middle of the ocean and your engine ***** out of your ship, right?
Well, I'm not an engine engineer. Don't know anything about. So you have to rely on the
people. I have AI. A certain. You know of certain opinion, but I had to rely on. On the
expertise of other people really get their opinions. And then really treat them like I was, you
know, getting their opinion, not just kind of. What they call top down leader work.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

That's what I try to. I I did try to hit try to. Listen other people.

Speaker 2

OK, OK, I understood.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Answer that question.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. That's perfect. You know, just one the specific question
come up with the one you just described. You know why you're doing this specific mission
to do the drug smuggler? Why not? Right. So what's the process like to form a team and to
complete this mission like from the beginning? All the like. All the way to the end like. Will
be the. Do you guys have any sort of OK?

Speaker 1

So I'm moving a little bit.

Speaker 2

I'm just.

Speaker 1

We are in away from the maps a little bit. By my mom's house and kind of.

Speaker 2

OK.

Speaker 1

Yeah, let me. Me. Just come down here a little bit. Say that again.

Speaker 2

OK, alright. I'm just trying to ask a question regarding the the mission you were talking
about the drug smuggling, right? Guys have a former team to do that. Can you describe,
you know, like the whole process? From the beginning to the end.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I can tell you what.

Speaker 2

You know.

Speaker 1

Let me just SEC. I'm pulling into my mom's. Let me tell her I'm on the phone with you and
so OK.

Speaker 2

OK.

Speaker 1

A minute.
Speaker 2

Sure.

Speaker 1

Hold on. I'm gonna roll the window down. Yeah.

Speaker 2

No worries.

Speaker 1

OK. Hi. Hey, I'm on the phone. And so I have to finish the call. OK. And then I'll come in. OK.
OK, you hear me.

Speaker 2

Yes, yes.

Speaker 1

Great. OK.

Speaker

Yeah. Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2

Did you want me to describe? Does. Yeah, it doesn't has to be like a very detailed like a
literate, like a steps like for example.

Speaker

The.

Speaker 2

What kind of like a forming team and? Talk about what we need to. You know, like a big
chunk, like a 5 things or 6 things you guys do. Don't need to know like the whole detail if
that makes sense. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

Right. OK. Yeah, it does. OK, so. We had to kind of select. People that were going to be on
this, what we call a boarding team. And so when I. Assigned to a ship, we had a boarding
team. We had to select the people that were capable. Doing. And then we had to. Train
right? We had to do. The different types of training, whether that means. Techniques the
TTP techniques, you know, tactics and procedures that you would do right and then
physical fitness we had to make sure we were fit because we're going to have to climb
ships on.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 2

Thank you.

Speaker 1

Ladders, where you climb up. So and we had to have, you know, all the proper shooting
and and all those kinds of things and and the schooling and the law, the maritime law.

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 1

So anyway, we had. Had a. Train first, build the team you know find. Team train the people.
And then we would be assigned to a. So then we would be transported usually to a Navy
ship where we would have to interact with the a new ship, a new commanding officer. We
were a detachment.

Speaker 2

Yeah, right. Right. Mm.

Speaker 1

Almost like a Marine Corps aircraft attachment that goes ship or a mule or something. So
we had to. Were small. We would have to relate to another command we would. Would
also have to communicate effectively.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

Like what type of what capabilities we had and what we could and couldn't do. And then
we had to. Umm, we had to be able to. Leave the Navy ship at. On a small boat. And board
the other ship at sea. Climb on board safely and also tactically we had to know how to
maneuver on the ship so that we were safe. And you know. We also had to have knowledge
of the ship on how the. The ship is. It's, you know, it's it's it's a little bit. A maze on the. You
have to kind of know how the ships. Laid out so we had. Be trained in. Things. And then we
had to know how. Search a ship. We had to know how to search a. Legally, you know.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

And under international law, which gets kind of tricky.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

We had to. That's too we had to have an awareness of international law and what our
policies were, and we also had to be effective at speaking with.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

The Master of the vessel, like the captain of these commercial vessels. Everybody was bad,
right?

Speaker 2

Mm hmm.

Speaker 1

Not everybody was so we. To be professional in speaking with them. So yeah. So you know,
basically training communications. Operations.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1
PDP. Sometimes diplomatic, you know, and. So does that paint a picture for you or? You
need some other detail.

Speaker 2

Yeah. No, I I guess what I'm trying to get away as far as like a mission wise. Like do you guys
have extended? I understand what you're saying. Like, you know, form a team, got the
proper training, got App team and all that. But as far as like the procedure for for a mission,
let's say. Do you guys will describe the? Do you guys have like any discussions like before
you go on this mission like you know everyone have the chance to speak out, you know the
potential? Dangers or what? We're. They need to pay attention, you know, as as as far as
the team function. You know, how do you guys write?

Speaker 1

Yeah, you do. Yeah, we. That's very standard and we have a mission planning process.

Speaker 2

Right. 'cause, maybe that's the one I'm getting with.

Speaker 1

Where?

Speaker 2

Yeah, the mission planning, like the procedure for that, yes.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. So we we take a look at. You know what the mission is, right? What the? We're
asked to do sometimes is called the intent or commander's intent.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker

Mm.

Speaker 1

Then we take a look at the. We look at, you know, what kind of ship is it? What is the
weather? What is the situation? What is the intelligence that we know about? Try to. Gather
as a team as much information and share that with each other. And we come up with a
plan for boarding, you know it's going to.

Speaker

Be. A.

Speaker 1

Kind of what we look at the risk, right? Say. Does this feel? It's going to be a high risk
boarding or is this going to be a non compliant boarding where they're going to not be
compliant?

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

Try to fight us. So we we look at the. And then we.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

Of try to evaluate the risk. We do a number score.

Speaker

What?

Speaker 1

They call green amber red like. Is this boarding going to be in the green? Is it going to be
kind of yellow or is it going to be red?

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

You know, be a high risk.

Speaker 2

OK. OK, right.

Try to evaluate that. Yeah, we used. We used to use. Model called gar. DAR green amber
red. Star model and then after that we put together a mission plan and then then we would
brief the commanding officer of the ship or whoever we were supporting with our plan.

Speaker 2

I see.

Speaker 1

Here's our plan. Then we'd have to try to describe. What it was sometimes they didn't
understand our concepts.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Had to kind of patient. We talked to him about it. Is what this? Like triangulation. This is
what.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

These concepts are when you're actually moving as a team, you know, like maneuver. You
know, we had to talk about that. And yeah. So yeah, definitely mission planning and then.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

So you, you know you have different options. They call it courses of action. We can we
come up with some different options?

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 1
But yeah. Definitely. It's a process that we're used to, you know, in the military and it's
sometimes they use it in business, but it's different. You know, you kind of do.

Speaker 2

Right. Right.

Speaker 1

An environmental. You know what is the environment?

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

What do we want to? You know it's it can be similar in business.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Set it up. It's cheap. Just change the words you know.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. So this is. A great, you know, the discussion that you shared with
me, so that's why this is leading to me. Questions. You know, a lot of things, you know, as
you're planning the missions, you know, kind of like a standardized right, everyone kind of
just start doing it. Just by doing it right. That's why a lot of time will cause team members
have a group thinking what that means is like everyone. Like you know, because everyone
doing this, the mission of this every time they kind of like everyone. We're thinking the same
way. Like try to accomplish the same goal. So when we have a group thinking can be a
major risk in a high pressure environment. So where people may, you know, prioritize
agreement over critical thinking. So my question is, how did you encourage open dialogue
and prevent group thinking within your?

Speaker 1

Yeah, I think that that's really an important one. Because yeah, sometimes we can go down
the the road, especially in the military of standard standard policy.

Speaker 2
Right.

Speaker 1

But I think that. Postcard has kind of smaller units. Mm. So I think it was.

Speaker

It was.

Speaker 1

We had already encouraged the team environment, you know, like I tried to establish a
positive environment that people felt like they could bring up their opinions in a respectful
way, right?

Speaker 2

MMM. Yeah.

Speaker 1

In a way that. Is like. Like that, they get too close to everybody, you know? But. Know what
I? Like what I mean by too close fraternized not like that, right?

Speaker 2

Bye.

Speaker 1

But like in a professional manner, everybody had input.

Speaker

Right.

Speaker 1

So that's, that's what I try to do is is bring it up and also. The Coast Guard has a. Has a has
a, A. Culture that if you, you know, if you see something, say something. Into.

Speaker 2

Oh yeah, right.

Speaker 1
A safety. It's very similar to aviation, like Naval Aviation, where the air crews air crews are
taught that it's a pretty good culture. They try to actually borrow some ideas from aviation,
and because the ship culture hasn't.

Speaker 2

Right. Right.

Speaker 1

As good at that.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

It's a historical culture. So we. To borrow those ideas from them so that if especially in the
small team environment where we are doing drug missions, you see something wrong,
then say that or if this doesn't look good, stay at. You know. You don't feel? If your gut
feeling is. You something you know you have to say it. Be that.

Speaker

Right. What we used to say.

Speaker 1

Don't be the. The last person with the secret you know.

Speaker 2

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

I mean. Did you ever? Do you ever hear that? Don't be the last person with a secret.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Yeah, it's very similar that we have.

Speaker 1

So. Yeah. So that's kind of what it was. The environment of of. Trying to train to that now,
there were certain missions that we tried to do.

Speaker 2
It.

Speaker 1

The same way, because we had learned over time that, for example, this is how you lower a
small boat into the ocean from a ship. Heavy sea conditions like you learn over time these
these methods work the best.

Speaker

As.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

Right. But if somebody has a different idea, we would try it. You know. Sometimes in an
environment where we could test it out, but also in a high stress environment that we try to
always be listening to other people. So I think it was just creating creating that environment
and people I think in civilian world don't think that's the case in the military.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

But it really. That it takes it takes a team like if you if.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Think about. Launching and recovering aircraft from an aircraft carrier. Think about how
many people.

Speaker 2

Mm.

Speaker 1

They have to rely on in a teamwork way. Make that happen, you know? And still everybody
you know has to.
Speaker 2

That's true. That's true.

Speaker 1

Know it's not as much top down all the time, you know. So anyway.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's that's kind of what I'd say there.

Speaker 2

Yeah. Perfect. I just got. So the. Last question is you know, but as you were saying right, you
try to providing a positive environment for them to save all different kinds of things. So we
also talk about you know, leader often use a compliance and gaining strategies. What that
means is they're trying to meeting where the followers doing in order to gaining what they
want it. So so my question is, do you use any of those kind of strategies to gain to buying
from your team if you do like what kind of strategy do you often use to leading missions or
training exercise?

Speaker 1

Let's see gaming strategies.

Speaker

So what I mean?

Speaker 2

By that is go ahead.

Speaker 1

Committee of.

Speaker 2

Like a for example like you are awarding like just one example, right? If you do this. I will
award you a day off, something like that. You know, that kind of strategies just getting you
as as a leader or you want as a mission as overall. I'm not saying that you will have to do
that, but like, do you see yourself in the past? While you have a commanding officer, just
want your follow up to do certain things. And to give them some compliance to, to meeting
there where they at or they are more likely to do certain things like, yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, very, very much so. Like recognition is really important in the
military because you can't always give people more money.

Speaker 2

Recognition.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So you can. Can recognize them. You can do it by praising people in front of other
people at the daily what they call officers call or daily muster. You can praise people that
way. You can encourage the team praise the whole team. Can praise individuals.

Speaker

Mm.

Speaker 1

Also, the awards are important. You know giving of medals. It wasn't so important to me,
but I knew it was important other people. So the giving of like awards and medals and
things like that was important.

Speaker 2

Absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 1

Giving time off is very important 'cause. That's something you can do if a team.

Speaker

Mm.

Speaker 1

You know, passed a inspection or something like that. We would try to give guys time off of
their hard work of doing inspection.

Speaker 2

Yeah.
Speaker 1

Sometimes we would say, hey guys, if we do this, we're going to take. Off, you know.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

There was another what else did? Want to tell? Oh yeah, the other one was one of the
things I learned from 1:00. My commanding officers was. Sometimes we are in very heavy
heat conditions and. But if we did a mission like for in football in a search and rescue of
people, and we are very tired after that, but we still had to be at sea.

Speaker 2

Hello. Right.

Speaker 1

Sometimes my captain would find a nice island to hide behind where the. He would cut the
waves, you know they call.

Speaker 2

Oh.

Speaker 1

You know, being in the Lee of the island or we would anchor like when I was a station in
Hawaii, in Hawaii, behind the islands. It's very.

Speaker

And.

Speaker 1

The water is very rough, but.

Speaker 2

Right.

Speaker 1

Sometimes we would come in and we would. Anchor off a nice island and we would do
some snorkeling and just swimming around barbecuing. Fish we catch some fish, you.
Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker

Know.

Speaker 1

So those were times to to take care of the crew, to rest and rest and recover, and people
really appreciated that.

Speaker 2

Where?

Speaker 1

And I learned from. So I tried to do those things also.

Speaker 2

Got it. Wow, that's perfect example. You.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah. The fun part, yeah.

Speaker 2

Yeah. And then the one last quick questions. You know, just the overall. Do you have a
mission statement for yourself? Being a leader? Like ever?

Speaker 1

Cool. Yeah, I do. I. Yeah, you know. I can do is if you want to read it, I'll have my wife take a
picture. Tasha. It's on my garage wall.

Speaker 2

Oh really?

Speaker 1

And it's a. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it has about, you know, 5 or 10 points. And when I left the ship,
yeah. When I left the ship, the guys had.

Speaker 2
Oh wow.

Speaker 1

Made a poster out of it. Has like a boat, you know, like and and. Or no, when I when I left
the I had a command of a port security unit that they called Msst San Diego, which protects
the port and.

Speaker 2

Mm. Right.

Speaker 1

I'll ask her right now to send me that picture. I'll just send. To you and then you can kind of
read.

Speaker

OK, perfect.

Speaker 1

The assignment statement a little while still.

Speaker 2

Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah you can like. You going back home today, right?

Speaker 1

Tomorrow.

Speaker 2

Oh, tomorrow, OK, either way.

Speaker 1

I will send it to me today, yeah.

Speaker 2

Perfect. Yeah, no rush. Whenever you either today or tomorrow. Whenever you got the
chance.

Speaker 1

Yeah. OK.
Speaker 2

Perfect. And when did you got this mission statement established like towards the end of
the the service? Is that what it was?

Speaker 1

No, I built it over my career. What happened was.

Speaker 2

A bit of a career, OK, gotcha.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So what happens is when you first. Go to when you first get command. You have. You
have to go to like a pre command school for a couple weeks.

Speaker 2

OK. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And the Coast Guard encourages that we create. Our our commanding officers, you know,
statement like you're talking about leadership.

Speaker 2

How? Yeah. Oh.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that's part. And so we we got to spend some. Writing it out. Then I think we might
have even had to present it. So then over the years, I would.

Speaker 2

Oh wow.

Speaker 1

I would add to it and then I would steal other people's. When people had something good, I
like then.

Speaker

Yeah.
Speaker 1

I would add it. So then yeah, so I always kept it and I would.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I see.

Speaker 1

Improve it or. Would change. On the the unit that I was assigned to, yeah.

Speaker 2

Well. This is. Maybe I need to take a look at yours to see what can I steal from you.

Speaker 1

We want to take a look and see what you. You know, I mean that that that particular
statement was definitely a oriented towards Coast Guard missions, but you know
hopefully you know, you don't engage some additional ideas or thoughts.

Speaker 2

For sure. Absolutely. Hmm yeah. Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 1

But yeah, so.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's that's all we have, Mark. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Speaker

OK.

Speaker 2

Really do appreciate it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely, yeah. I'd say that you know, just you and I, you know, we get together to
study the Bible. You know, I think that. I mean, I always read the Bible throughout my
career.

Speaker 2
Hmm.

Speaker 1

Try to be in Bible studies and so you know some of the examples in the Bible. Also look to
for leadership. Know I would. I'd either say, oh, that's really bad leadership or. That was
good. Know so.

Speaker 2

Goodbye.

Speaker 1

I was always looking for.

Speaker

Mm. As I.

Speaker 2

Let's go to.

Speaker 1

Looking, you know, Jesus, of course, is with.

Speaker 2

Right, yeah.

Speaker 1

And how he interacted with people. So all those things were. And I was also. A lot of books I
was reading books on leadership a lot during my Co career. Yeah. So and then I'd read
people.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

All that when I was in the military, I still have a lot of books on.

Speaker 2

Mm.
Speaker 1

Shelf about all that stuff.

Speaker 2

Oh. Wow, this is perfect.

Speaker

No.

Speaker 2

I think I got the best person to interview throughout the entire my class for sure.

Speaker 1

I don't know. I don't know. It's a maybe a different flavor. You know, but. Yeah. So but. Well,
hey, I'm gonna go in and see my mom, and then I'll, I'll get Tasha to send the the picture of
that, that shoot. Do we used to call? We called it not commanding officers direction, but it
was. Oh, you know what it's called command philosophy.

Speaker 2

Oh, conventional oxy. That's interesting. OK.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah. We, we'd always have.

Speaker 2

All right. I'll looking forward to that.

Speaker 1

Yeah, we'd always have to. Yeah, we always had to write our command philosoph. And I
think we put it up on the wall, which is pretty common and that's when the guys put a nice
picture behind it of of like a small boat. They made. They made it into a poster. One of the.
One of the E sevens that was really strong. At the unit, he he. Do that kind of stuff, he he
would.

Speaker

Yeah.

Speaker 1
You know, he was like 1 of. Best E7's. Know. You know Chief Betty, officer.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

He did that.

Speaker 2

That's awesome.

Speaker 1

So he would. Surprise me with stuff like that.

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1

But yeah.

Speaker 2

Most of them missed it. Are more accurate for sure.

Speaker 1

Yeah, they. Yeah, so all right. Well, let me hug.

Speaker 2

Yeah.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Let me know how it goes and I'll. You that command philosophy.

Speaker 2

For. Well, yeah, I enjoy the time with with your mom.

Speaker

OK.

Speaker 2
I don't wanna waste any more time, all right. You so much.

Speaker 1

OK. Thanks. Take care.

Speaker 2

All right. And take care. Bye. Bye.

Speaker 1

Bye bye.

Speaker

Bye.

Speaker 1

Bye.