1

4 SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE

5 JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL,

6 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

7 WASHINGTON, D.C.

10

11 INTERVIEW OF: ALONDRA PROPES

12

13

14

15 Monday, January 31, 2022

16

17 Washington, D.C.

18

19

20 The interview in the above matter was held via Webex, commencing at 10:01 a.m.

21 Present: Representatives Schiff and Murphy.

 2

2 Appearances:

5 For the SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE

6 THE JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL:

8 STAFF ASSOCIATE

9 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

10 RESEARCHER

11 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

12 CHIEF CLERK

13 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

14 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

15 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

16

17

18 For ALONDRA PROPES:

19

20 ANTHONY RICKMAN
 3

2 So we'll go on the record at 10:01 a.m. eastern time.

3 Good morning. This is a transcribed interview of Ms. Alondra Propes conducted

4 by the House Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States

5 Capitol pursuant to House Resolution 503.

6 At this time, I'd ask the witness to please state your full name and spell your last

7 name for the record.

8 Mr. Rickman. You can't hear her?

9 No.

10 Mr. Rickman. Can you hear me?

11 I can hear you.

12 Mr. Rickman. I'm going to switch seats with her then. I have my microphone

13 set up. For some reason my mike's not working on Webex.

14 Okay.

15 Mr. Rickman. So I'm going to switch seats with her.

16 Perfect.

17 Mr. Rickman. The microphone's on this side, Alondra.

18 The beauty of virtual, right?

19 Perfect. All right.

20 Ms. Propes, can you state your name and spell your last name for the record?

21 And this will also be a sound check as well.

22 Ms. Propes. Yes. My name is Alondra Leigh Propes, P-r-o-p-e-s.

23 Does that sound all right for you, ma'am?

24 The Reporter. [Responds.]

25 Thank you.
 4

1 And thank you, Ms. Propes.

2 This will be a staff-led deposition, and members, of course, may choose to also ask

3 questions. In the room today, however, we have That's me,

4 investigative counsel. We h a v e - investigative c o u n s e l ; -

5 investigative counsel; investigative counsel; and

6 investigative counsel.

7 There are currently no members that are present for the interview.

8 Ms. Propes, you are here voluntarily for this transcribed interview.

9 At this time could your counsel please state his name for the record?

10 understand you guys might need to switch around. But can you please state your name

11 for the record?

12 Mr. Rickman. Yes. Anthony Rickman. A-n-t-h-o-n-y, R-i-c-k-m-a-n.

13 For some reason that did not come through.

14 Mr. Rickman. Anthony Rickman, A-n-t-h-o-n-y, R-i-c-k-m-a-n, counsel for Alondra

15 Propes.

16 Perfect. Thank you.

17 There is an official reporter transcribing the record of this interview. Please wait

18 until each question is completed before you begin your response, and we will try to wait

19 until your response is complete before we ask our next question.

20 The stenographer cannot record nonverbal responses, such as shaking your head.

21 So it's important that you answer each question with a verbal response. And if I see you

22 shaking your head, I'll just remind you just to please state and answer for the record.

23 We ask that you please provide complete answers based on your best

24 recollection. If the question's not clear, just please ask me for a clarification. I'll do my

25 best to reword it and ask it in a way that you understand. If you don't know the answer
 5

1 to the question, just simply say so.

2 I also want to remind you that it's unlawful to deliberately provide false

3 information to Congress for this interview. Providing false information could result in

4 criminal penalties for false statements.

5 Do you understand that, Ms. Propes?

6 Ms. Propes. Yes, sir.

7 Okay. Logically speaking, I know we're virtual. Please let us

8 know if you need any breaks just like if we were in person. We can take whatever

9 breaks for comfort, whatever you need. Or, more importantly, if you need to speak to

10 Anthony at any point, please just let us know. We'll go off camera. You can mute.

11 You-all can go have your discussions and we'll come back on the record whenever you-all

12 are done discussing. Do not hesitate to let me know you need to speak to your counsel,

13 and we will break immediately.

14 Does that make sense?

15 Ms. Propes. Yes. Thank you.

16 Thank you.

17 EXAMINATION

18 BY

19 Q So let's just start with some background stuff.

20 Can you please tell us the city and State that you currently live?

21 A I live in Apollo Beach, Florida.

22 Q Where in Florida is that?

23 A South of Tampa.

24 Q What's the highest level of education that you've obtained?

25 A Master's degree.
 6

1 Q And where did you obtain your master's, and what was it in?

2 A University of Arkansas at Little Rock in criminal justice.

3 Q And where did you -- did you go undergrad in Arkansas as well?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Where did you go?

6 A University of Arkansas at Little Rock.

7 Q And what was your undergrad degree in?

8 A Psychology and criminal justice.

9 Q What is your current occupation?

10 A I'm a homemaker.

11 Q At any point were you law enforcement or military?

12 A I was previously a parole and probation officer in Arkansas.

13 Q How long were you a parole and probation officer approximately?

14 A About 5 years total but over a span of years. I took off some time after I

15 had my daughter.

16 Q So I hear you talking about Arkansas. When did you move to Florida?

17 A 2019.

18 Q Got you. And did you move for work or family?

19 A My husband took a job here.

20 Q Got you.

21 Just stating for the record that Mr. Adam Schiff has joined the

22 meeting.

23 BY

24 Q So can you please just let us know how and when you joined the Oath

25 Keepers or started associating with that group?

 7

1 A I officially joined the Oath Keepers July 30th of 2020. A friend of mine told

2 me -- I had never heard of them before that. A friend of mine told me about them. He

3 knew that I was concerned with things that were going on in our communities, such as

4 the destructive behavior of, like, antifa, and he thought that I would be interested in

5 joining this group because he knew that -- he knew that I would -- he thought I would be

6 interested.

7 Q Got you. And so when you said -- all right. Let's back up.

8 Did you join a chapter, like a local regional group for the Oath Keepers?

9 A I just joined the general membership, and then I was led to the Florida

10 group.

11 Q Okay. And how were you led? Was it through, like, email after you joined

12 the national org, or did you know someone in the local group?

13 A My brother, he's the one that had asked me to -- or told me about

14 the -- about the Oath Keepers. He -- oh, God, it's been so long.

15 Q Oh, no worries. Just to the best of your recollection.

16 A I don't know. Well, actually on the website there's actually

17 different -- different little groups. It said Florida and all the different States. And I

18 think that's how I originally did it.

19 Q And what was the application process like to join?

20 A To join, I just paid the membership fee.

21 And just for the record, Mrs. Stephanie Murphy has also joined

22 the interview.

23 BY

24 Q What was the application fee -- or how much -- how much did it cost?

25 Sorry. How much were your dues?

 8

1 A I paid $120.

2 Q And was this annually, or was it just a one-time cost up front?

3 A I believe it was -- actually, I don't know.

4 Q Okay.

5 A I do know that I paid -- that's not the standard fee. I paid a little bit more

6 because if you paid more you got -- you qualified for, like, discounts on merchandise and

7 training and stuff. So I paid a little bit more. I think the average fee to join was maybe

8 $50.

9 Q So you mentioned the training and things of that. Did you partake in any

10 training after you joined the Oath Keepers?

11 A No, no, I didn't.

12 Q Okay.

13 A And there was no training. I never saw any training offered or any

14 merchandise. There was no merchandise store. There was -- the only training that

15 was ever offered that I knew of was just some members getting together, wanting to go,

16 you know, do certain things.

17 Q Okay. What certain things would the members want to get together and

18 do?

19 A Well, they went to a range one day. The only time I met up in a formal

20 group with the Oath Keepers was -- it wasn't really a training. It was like kind of a

21 meet-up. I guess you could call it a training. They were some of the members that

22 had, like, ham license -- ham radio license. They were teaching us about radios and stuff

23 like that.

24 Q Okay. Just help us understand, I guess. So you mentioned that there

25 were training and some merchandise discounts. Was there anything else that was it
 9

1 told your dues would go toward when you were joining the Oath Keepers?

2 A No.

3 Q Okay. What was your understanding your dues would go toward when you

4 joined?

5 A Just, I guess, just -- I really didn't know. Just the membership. I mean,

6 most -- most -- a lot of clubs have different membership fees. Again, I really thought

7 that we would have, you know, training or merchandise.

8 Q Did you receive anything? I guess, so you joined in 2020. During your

9 time while you were in the Oath Keepers, did you receive anything at all for your dues?

10 A Just like a little membership certificate. That was it.

11 Q Got you. Are you still a member of the Oath Keepers?

12 A No, I resigned.

13 Q When did you resign? Can you please just explain to us why?

14 A I resigned January 20th of 2021.

15 Q Got you. And why did you resign?

16 A I resigned because after January 6th people were calling the Oath Keepers

17 and other groups, like the Proud Boys, calling them domestic terrorists and stuff. And I

18 knew that's not what we were. But I didn't want to be associated with that for my

19 family's benefit, and that's not who we were.

20 Q So I'll probably get into this a little bit more later because you just said,

21 "That's not who we were," talking about domestic terrorists after January 6th.

22 Can you help us understand why the Oath Keepers, why you didn't consider them

23 domestic terrorists after January 6th?

24 A Because I don't believe that -- well, as far as I was concerned, I didn't do

25 anything at all that involved domestic terrorism.

 10

1 Q Got you. Thank you. And, please, we'll get into this probably when we

2 get more to the 6th and the 5th. We'll just ask you what you might have observed and

3 what others from the Florida chapter, other chapters, you might have observed them

4 doing.

5 And just to get back to the chapter, was it a Florida statewide chapter, or was it a

6 Tampa chapter? How was your chapter organized?

7 A It was a Florida statewide chapter. They kind of broke it down into

8 different little sections, like central Florida, south Florida, east and west. I think there

9 was, like, four or five sections that it was broken down into.

10 But we still all communicated as just Florida pretty much. There were different

11 little groups, but we didn't really do much in the different groups. It was just kind of

12 Florida.

13 Q Was, I guess, the regional groups you just described, were you part of the

14 central Florida regional group or south? Which one were you a member of?

15 A I think it was called southeast, I believe.

16 Q And that covered kind of the Tampa region and folks just south of Tampa?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Who was in charge of your regional group and then the State group, if you

19 recall?

20 A Mike Adams, when I joined, Mike Adams was the leader of the Florida, the

21 State group. And he just became leader because nobody else had stepped up. And so

22 he got in there and was trying to get things organized.

23 And towards the -- before January, he resigned and Kelly Meggs took over -- again,

24 just by default. Nobody else really stepped up, and he had leadership skills. And so he

25 was trying to keep everybody together.

 11

1 Q Okay. So you said Mike Adams. Is Mike Adams in the Tampa area, as

2 well, or was he in another part of Florida?

3 A I don't really know where Mike Adams lived.

4 Q Okay. Did you --

5 A 1think was he was closer to Jacksonville area, I believe.

6 Q Okay. Got you. Thank you.

7 Did you hold any leadership roles, either locally or nationally, within the

8 organization?

9 A No.

10 Q And you mentioned some going to the range and shooting and stuff. Was

11 this like a formal training? Or was it more like a get-together where you-all just went to

12 the range to shoot?

13 A I did not go to the range to shoot.

14 Q Okay. Okay. You just heard about it?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Okay. Was it like a -- was it advertised as a formal training? Was it

17 advertised as, you know, folks just going out to the range for a day?

18 A It was mainly just people going out to the range for the day. Several people

19 said: Hey, is anybody interested in going to shoot? And they just got some money

20 together and paid the fee for the day and went out there.

21 Q Do you remember approximately when that training occurred or when that

22 get-together occurred?

23 A I do not since I was not involved.

24 Q No worries. Do you recall any trainings or meetings that discussed various

25 maneuvers on how to use weapons or tactics, anything like that?

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1 A No.

2 Q What type of events -- and I'm thinking pre-January 5th and 6th. So we're

3 kind of in the mindset of when you joined in 2020, and, let's say, let's go through, like,

4 December of 2020.

5 What type of events did the Oath Keepers typically organize or hold during your

6 time?

7 A In December, I can't think of any events that were organized.

8 Q Or just in general during your time as an Oath Keeper, other than

9 January 6th in D.C., what types of events did you go to with the Oath Keepers and did

10 you-all lead or organize?

11 Mr. Rickman. I can help.

12 Talking about, you know, security for the organization, are you talking about

13 events -- I'm sorry.

14 When you speak of events, you're just referring to broad activities that she did

15 with the Oath Keepers throughout the time? I want to -- so we can clarify for her.

16 BY
17 Q I guess I'm just trying to understand what they did. So it could be activities.

18 It could be events, anything. I'm just trying to understand what the organization was

19 doing.

20 A Okay. So, again, the purpose of the Oath Keepers getting together was to

21 form neighborhood watches, community watches, trying to protect our communities

22 from the violent activities of antifa.

23 And so they went to Louisville after the Breanna Taylor verdict was read because

24 there was threats of violence against local business owners. And then they went to -- I

25 know they went to Louisville. And I think they went to one other place, again, to
 13

1 provide security.

2 Q Was it Michigan? Do you recall was it Michigan, like Detroit?

3 A No, it was -- no, they didn't go to Michigan.

4 Q Okay.

5 A One second.

6 Q No worries.

7 A Okay. And then Louisiana, when the NFAC went out there, a few people

8 went out to Louisiana because I believe it was the Governor had said some things, kind of

9 challenging the NFAC to come out there. And they did. And so a few people went out

10 there to provide security for that.

11 They did some security events for Roger Stone and --

12 Q Do you recall if the NAFC [sic], what that acronym stands for?

13 A Not Fucking Around Crew.

14 Q Got you. Do you remember what part of Louisiana that Oath Keepers went

15 out to help with?

16 A I think it was Lafayette.

17 Q Lafayette.

18 And then you also mentioned providing personal -- was it a personal security

19 detail for Mr. Roger Stone? Is that what you recall?

20 A Yes.

21 Q What events did the Oath Keeper organization provide a security detail for

22 Mr. Stone, if you remember?

23 A He had book signing events, one in Miami, one in Tampa, one in D. -- I don't

24 know about D. -- yeah, I think they provided security for him in D.C. before January

25 of -- and one in Clearwater.

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1 Q How was this -- how were these opportunities communicated to members?

2 Was it -- did you just receive an email, like here's some new opportunities, or was it a

3 text? How did you become aware of these opportunities?

4 A All of our communications were on the Signal chat.

5 Q Which Signal chat would you receive it? Was it the Florida one that you

6 sent us, or were there other Signal chats that you would learn about these opportunities?

7 A There were other Signal chats. There were all kind -- lots of different chats

8 for different -- different subjects.

9 Q Got you. Can you give us just a brief summary of the different Signal chats

10 and subjects that you recall?

11 A Okay. So there was an OK Florida Hangout chat, and it was for anybody

12 that had joined the Oath Keepers got to go in that chat.

13 And then there was an OK Florida vetted chat, and it was for people that

14 have -- that were members but had actually been vetted by others members to make

15 sure that they were who they said they were.

16 There was a chat for equipment. You know, people were saying -- you know,

17 people would get on there and talk about the different, you know, different equipment,

18 like medical equipment, radios.

19 Yeah, there was a whole chat on ham radio because they encouraged people to

20 get their ham radio license because, again, a part of what the Oath Keepers did, it was not

21 just security for events, but there was also like natural disasters.

22 They would go out if, say, there was like a hurricane or something, they would go

23 out and provide security for people that were away from their homes or their businesses.

24 And also just being here in Florida, it's good to have either a radio or a weather radio.

25 And so we were trying to learn about that.

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1 Q Right. Was there a discussion, equipment, about weapons as well, or was it

2 only just kind of like the radios you just described?

3 A Weapons also.

4 Q What type of weapons were described or talked about, if you recall?

5 A I guess a bunch of, like, different, like, equipment, like, well, like for guns, for

6 shooting. You know, a lot of these -- a lot of the people are law enforcement and

7 military. And, you know, everybody would still train and, you know, go out to the range.

8 And, you know, and people that were military were good at giving information to the

9 nonmilitary people on, you know, the best equipment for self-defense and --

10 Q Going back to some of the events or activities that you-all would participate

11 in, were there any COVID lockdown rallies that you-all would go to and participate with?

12 A Never.

13 Q Not that you recall? Okay.

14 A Not that I was -- ever heard of.

15 Q And were there any other individuals that you recall providing a personal

16 security detail for other than Mr. Stone?

17 A No.

18 Q So I guess rounding this out, you talked about the equipment, Signal chats,

19 the weapons, going out and shooting at times. I guess why was the security necessary?

20 Or what were you all, I guess, preparing for when having these discussions or providing

21 security for folks?

22 A Again, the main thing was to protect our communities, our neighborhoods,

23 our families from antifa, and because they were well-known coming through our areas

24 where people are sitting out, having dinner at one of the local restaurants. And then

25 they come in there and, you know, terrorize people. And we didn't know if they would
 16

1 be coming into our neighborhoods.

2 So we just -- it was defense. Just like most communities have community

3 watches. And there's -- when I've lived in other States, I would go to community watch

4 neighborhood meetings. And I've always been involved with the community watch.

5 You know, you get to know your neighborhoods, get to know your law enforcement.

6 That was the main thing it was about. I mean, when I joined the Oath Keepers, it

7 had nothing to do with the election or anything like that. It was simply for protecting

8 our communities.

9 Thank you, Ms. Propes.

10 I believe some of my -- some of the other staff might have a few follow-up

11 questions for you.

12

13 Q Hi, Ms. Propes. Thanks for being with us today.

14 I'm so sorry if I missed this. When did you join the Oath Keepers?

15 A July 30th of 2020.

16 Q Got it. And you were just talking about the threat you saw from antifa, and

17 you mentioned that right at the beginning as one of the reasons that you wanted to join.

18 Do you mind expanding on that a little bit? What were you concerned that

19 antifa was trying to do?

20 A Okay. So, for example, right before the same time that I joined the Oath

21 Keepers, I also got involved with a Back the Blue group. And we were supporting law

22 enforcement because they were being targets of antifa and then the Black Lives Matter

23 organizations.

24 Out on August 1st, which is, like I said, the same time that I joined the Oath

25 Keepers, I went out. And in Tampa the Back the Blue group painted a mural in front of
 17

1 the Tampa Police Department, just showing support for law enforcement. And that very

2 night or the next morning, antifa and BLM came out and destroyed the mural, and they

3 came out and were harassing anybody that was involved in it.

4 And then they went on to post pictures. So we posted pictures of everybody

5 working on the mural. And so this antifa-BLM group came, took the pictures, and

6 doxxed everybody that they could find, posted their addresses, their information, their

7 personal life, contacted their employers, trying to -- trying to harm people that were

8 supporting Back the Blue.

9 And so that was a very real threat and that was something that we were all

10 concerned with. And that's why we decided to band together to protect ourselves from

11 things like that.

12 Q Got it. And so --

13 A They would literally -- they would literally come out in the streets. And if

14 anybody was in support of the police, they would come and they would try to fight them.

15 They would tear down their flags. They were doing all kinds of destruction. It was

16 horrible.

17 Q Got it. And that incident is what spurred you to join the Oath Keepers?

18 A That and many others like it, just from following the news, just around the

19 country, many, many, many reports of things like that. It was horrible.

20 Q Sure. So I'm just trying to understand kind of what the nature of the threat

21 was. What is antifa trying to do, in your opinion?

22 A They are trying to -- anybody that does not support the BLM

23 movement -- and, again, I support -- I believe there's a difference between the

24 organization and the movement. But anybody that -- you know, they would even have

25 people, if you didn't put up a BLM flag, they would threaten to burn your business down.
 18

1 Or, I mean, they were like trying to force people to say the things they wanted people to

2 say or to feel the way they wanted people to feel.

3 And they did not tolerate people supporting law enforcement. And I'm a huge

4 supporter of law enforcement. I always have been. And they burned American flags,

5 stuff like that, just something that I just do not agree with.

6 Q Got it. So I was asking about antifa, and you mentioned Black Lives Matter.

7 What's the connection between the two that you see?

8 A So antifa, so there are, like I said, to me, there's a movement and then

9 there's an organization. And I think antifa, they pretend to support Black Lives Matter.

10 But mostly antifa are not actually Black and I think they get in there and they're trying to

11 cause a rift between BLM and Back the Blue supporters or -- and just they're just in there

12 trying to cause problems.

13 And I don't -- I don't believe that antifa is actually -- actually supports Black lives.

14 I don't believe that they do. I think they're just in there to cause chaos and to cause a

15 divide between the people and just in there to do any destruction that they can under the

16 name of BLM.

17 Q Got it.

18 A Because from what I know, BLM -- not all, but a lot of them from my

19 observations -- really didn't want maybe the antifa people or the non-Black people in

20 there with them because they didn't -- I don't believe that they thought that they actually

21 understood what they were fighting for. And they -- a lot of them knew that they were

22 actually just trying to cause trouble.

23 Q Got it. And why do you think antifa would want to cause a rift?

24 A Because I guess they just want --1 don't know if they just like the chaos or -- I

25 really don't know what's in their minds. I don't want to know.

 19

1 Q Got it. And now let me just turn to Black Lives Matter. What do you think

2 their goals are?

3 A So I believe that their -- they do want equality and want to -- and I totally

4 support that, absolutely, 100 percent. But, again, I believe that there are also

5 people -- so I think there's good and bad in it. And the good are just fighting for basic

6 rights and wanting to be heard and respected. Then there's others that actually, I think,

7 are angry.

8 And, again, a lot -- it's like BLM versus the police. And I don't -- I support both.

9 I just don't like the antifa being in the middle, trying to, you know, cause problems

10 between both groups.

11 Q Got it. I'm just curious to know, you know, how you do your research on

12 antifa and BLM.

13 A Following the news.

14 Q Sure.

15 A Following the news.

16 Q What kind of news sources?

17 A Shoot, just a lot of -- I usually read my news online, whether it's local TV

18 stations or national stations. CNN. FOX. Those are the main ones.

19 Q Got it. And do you think a lot of your fellow Oath Keepers kind of shared

20 the same beliefs as you?

21 A I can't say what they believed. Probably. But, I mean, I don't know for

22 sure. But for the most part.

23 Q Did you ever talk about antifa or BLM with other Oath Keepers?

24 A Yes, we would follow with their activity in our areas. And we would just

25 kind of share, oh, you know, the different incidences of things that they had done here or
 20

1 there. So we knew what to be on the lookout for and knew how to best protect our

2 communities.

3 Q Got it.

4 A Because at the time they were very active. They were having rallies, like,

5 all the time, or protests.

6 Understood.

7 - back to you.

8 Thanks, Ms. Propes.

9 Ms. Propes. Thank you.

10 Do any other members or any staff have any follow-up questions

11 for Ms. Propes?

12 BY

13 Q So I want to now, Ms. Propes, move to, like, the general election time period

14 and then afterwards.

15 So in November, a couple of days before the rallies in D.C. on November 14th,

16 Mr. Stewart Rhodes told Alex Jones on lnfowars that, "We have men stationed outside

17 D.C. as a nuclear option in case they attempt to remove the President illegally." And

18 then he also said that, "We're prepared to go on if the President calls us up."

19 Do you recall this interview with Mr. Rhodes on lnfowars?

20 A After the fact.

21 Q After the fact? Okay.

22 What was your impression? What did you take of that interview or what

23 Mr. Rhodes was saying in that interview?

24 A Well, the main thing that -- that they were -- that they talked about that I

25 was aware of and any -- and I didn't get too involved with that discussion because it kind
 21

1 of went way over my head. But they were talking about the Insurrection Act.

2 And, again, at the time I did not really even know what that meant. I do now.

3 But they were talking about wanting the President to invoke the Insurrection Act.

4 Q Got it. Did you recall any -- did you know of any Oath Keepers actually

5 being outside of Washington, D.C., ready to go in the November 2020 timeframe?

6 A No, I did not know at the time.

7 Q Okay. Did you know of any Oath Keepers planning to go up and participate

8 in the November 14th rally in Washington, D.C., whether it would be doing personal

9 security detail or event security detail?

10 A Yes. I believe Kelly Meggs went to that one.

11 Q Did anybody else that you know of from the chapter go, or was it just

12 Mr. Meggs?

13 A Just Mr. Meggs that I knew of.

14 Q Okay.

15 A And maybe -- maybe Connie, maybe his wife with him.

16 Q Got it.

17 A Maybe.

18 Q What was the nature, if it was talked about at all, of what Mr. Meggs was

19 going up to do for the November 14th rallies?

20 A Just to provide security. Again, any time there's rallies in support of the

21 President, BLM and antifa would show up. And on the way home they would

22 antagonize and harm supporters, Trump supporters. I mean, there's video after video of

23 them just coming up out of the blue, hitting people on the head, knocking them down,

24 stealing their flags, stuff like that. And so -- and I'm talking about not just men. I'm

25 talking about they go after women, children.

 22

1 And so the Oath Keepers thought: Well, we're going to go and we're going to

2 walk -- make sure -- walk supporters get out to their vehicles safely.

3 Q So this goes back actually to the Louisville and the Lafayette, and now I'm

4 going to also lump in the November 14th rally in D.C. with this.

5 A Okay.

6 Q Did you-all coordinate with any other chapters of Oath Keepers, or was it

7 just Florida folks that were going up there to provide the security details?

8 A All I knew of was Florida.

9 Q Okay.

10 A I mean, also I wasn't involved in that planning. So I didn't -- I don't know if

11 they talked to other people or not.

12 Q And do you recall, for example, Mr. Meggs' trip for November, what did he

13 do, I guess, to prepare for the security detail? You talked about these threats just now

14 from antifa, especially after the event. So how would he prepare for that threat when

15 he would go up to provide the security?

16 A He wore, like, equipment. Like I don't know if he had, like, a vest at the

17 time. But I think -- well, he might have. I don't know if they had -- I don't know.

18 don't know what they looked like there or anything. But he never -- to my knowledge,

19 there wasn't any training involved. It was just going to provide -- to be there, their

20 presence.

21 Q Was there any, like, threat briefings or discussions, like before, about the

22 possible threats and how to counter those? Or was it just kind of go up there with your

23 gear on and be on the lookout?

24 A That was pretty much it, just go up there and, you know, have your presence

25 known. There were Zoom calls, you know, because we always had regular calls like
 23

1 every Monday. It was just, you know, basic, general information.

2 But we would get on a Zoom call and they would kind of just discuss, you know,

3 who all's going, who can make it. If you can make it, please come out. If you can't, just

4 stay back and provide, you know, whatever we need from Florida. But, no, there wasn't

5 any, like, training or anything.

6 Q So these calls, who organized the Monday calls? Was it Mr. Meggs, or was

7 it more the local chapter?

8 A In the beginning it was Mike Adams that organized the calls, and then Kelly

9 just took over after Mr. Adams resigned.

10 Q Approximately how long would these calls last? Would you receive, like,

11 agendas before? Just walk us through, I guess, how the calls were structured.

12 A There would be a -- so it was on Zoom. Was it Zoom? No, no, no, not

13 Zoom. What was it?

14 Q Was it Zella?

15 A No. Not Zoom. What was the -- GoToMeeting. Yeah, there were

16 GoToMeeting calls.

17 And so before the call, Kelly or whoever was doing the call would post the little

18 link to the call in our chat. And when it was time for the call, he would click on it and

19 join the call. Anybody could call in, you know, that was invited from the chat.

20 And people would just, you know, everybody would just check in. A lot of times

21 people would say their name and what area they were from. And people would just

22 kind of talk about current events, things that were going on. And for, like, you know,

23 before that trip maybe they were telling us, you know, who -- who all was going.

24 And so the people that did not go out there to the different things, we would kind

25 of stay back and just kind of monitor online, like, things that were happening, because
 24

1 these days you can see anything, live action.

2 And we would get on our computers from home and just follow a livestream of

3 the rally or whatever, and we could report to whoever was out there if we saw some kind

4 of hot spot or some kind of action going on where people were having problems getting

5 along or whatever. And we would just kind of check in with them.

6 But we -- that's what we would do from home.

7 Q Got it. And when you just talk about kind of it sounds like the people back

8 home would do, kind of help with the reconnaissance or the events, how would -- would

9 you use like the C-SPAN channel to see these hot spots or were you using clips from

10 Twitter, of people uploading it?

11 A Both. There would be like the national, you know, media, all kind of media

12 would be out at these events, whether it was, you know, again, CNN or FOX, whoever.

13 Or then there was just little local independent journalists would be out, up in the

14 middle of it. And they would have -- I can't think of the name of it. But there's like

15 a Twitch. There's a whole -- there's an app called Twitch. And you get on there and

16 people -- it's just full of livestreams. And you can do a search for "Trump rally," and

17 everybody that's livestreaming from the Trump rally would pull it up.

18 But, yeah, it was a mix. It was the national news, local news, and independent

19 journalists.

20 Q Do you recall -- you'd already gone through some of the news sources with

21 - earlier. But do you recall any of the independent journalists that you were

22 relying on to possibly find these hot spots?

23 A At this moment I can't think of anything specific. But at the time, I mean,

24 we would -- we would just, you know, we would see a few people that were like really

25 involved in it. And they would go out to all the different events. Just kind of local
 25

1 people, not anybody, any name that I could really think of off the top of my head.

2 Q Understandable. And then for the GoToMeetings, you said you would talk

3 about like current events. Was there a time when the current events changed over to

4 the election, possible fraud in the election? Did that start to come up more frequently

5 at any certain point?

6 A Yes. I think it was just like right after the election. We were introduced to

7 Kellye SoRelle. She was in Michigan. She was being a, I believe, working as a poll

8 watcher. And she witnessed some fraudulent activity taking place at the poll.

9 And so Stewart Rhodes brought her into our group. And she's actually the

10 general counsel for the Oath Keepers. But he brought her into our group, and she

11 started just telling us about all the information that she witnessed.

12 And then they had us start kind of gathering any information that we could see,

13 because she was going to try to do something about it. I don't know, a lawsuit. I don't

14 know what she was going to do.

15 But we were just collecting all the information we could find of the different

16 people, you know, with their different instances of people saying: Oh, you know, I filled

17 out 50 ballots, or this or that. We just collected a bunch of information of similar

18 stories, many of them.

19 Q Do you recall any other States that Ms. SoRelle or others might have been

20 focused in on right after the election? You just mentioned Michigan. Were there any

21 other States?

22 A Michigan was the main one because that's where she was at.

23 Q Got you. And when you said, "We would collect a bunch of info," were

24 you -- what were you collecting it for?

25 A Just to forward to her so she could do this lawsuit or try to, you know,
 26

1 whatever she planned on doing about the fraud?

2 Q And you also mentioned that Mr. Rhodes brought Ms. SoRelle into your

3 GoToMeetings. Did Mr. Rhodes regularly attend your meetings or --

4 A No. Actually he brought her into our Signal chat, first of all. And there

5 was actually a chat called -- I think it was called something like Voter Fraud. And not

6 everybody was in it, just people that kind of had, you know, skills of researching things or

7 whatever. And they said: Hey, can you help with this? You know, we're going to

8 look into election fraud.

9 But, yeah, she was on some of the calls. But the main thing that we

10 communicated with her through was the Signal chat.

11 Q And, I guess, just going back to that, how involved was Mr. Rhodes with kind

12 of like your local Florida experience in the Oath Keepers?

13 A Maybe -- maybe 50 percent of the time or maybe less than that, not a whole

14 lot. But I know he would contact Kelly Meggs directly for a lot of things, you know, I

15 guess on their personal chats or through texts or whatever. But I know that he would

16 try to bring Kelly into a lot of things.

17 Q And what was -- like what was he coming in for? When Mr. Rhodes, you

18 said a little less than 50 percent of the time, when he would come into the meetings,

19 what was it for? Was it for, like, a national update? I guess what -- just help us

20 understand.

21 A Yeah, pretty much like a national update. He would just come in and check

22 on the different chapters. He would -- again, I think we talked a lot about nothing

23 sometimes, just, you know, just really checking in. Like I said, we had these calls, like,

24 every Monday. And they were so long, an hour and a half or two, just, again, people

25 kind of rambling on about what was going on.

 27

1 And a lot -- these were a bunch of older guys mostly, and they just like -- you know

2 how that goes. Just trying to talk about what they know versus -- I don't know. But

3 anyway, I listened to half of it, and half of it I was doing other things.

4 Q Got it. So I wanted to go back to a point. And if you see me looking

5 down, I apologize, I'm writing notes. So that's why I'm looking down.

6 A Okay.

7 Q And I'm going to note that you said that Ms. SoRelle was doing something

8 about the fraud that you-all might have been witnessing. What was your understanding

9 about what she was doing?

10 A I'm thinking a lawsuit.

11 Q Okay.

12 A But the main thing is -- yeah, I don't know. But she was -- you know, we

13 spent a lot of time trying to gather information for her.

14 Q Do you know if that lawsuit was ever filed?

15 A Not to my knowledge.

16 Q And also -- so I'm -- and help -- this is me just trying to understand kind of

17 the switch, right? Because I understand you were talking about the threat from antifa

18 and BLM and NAFC. I think it's NFC --

19 A NFAC.

20 Q NAFC [sic]. When did, I guess, the concern switch from those type of

21 threats to election fraud and why?

22 A I guess following the election, just, you know, right after the election is when

23 it switched over. And it didn't switch over totally. I mean, we were still -- that was still

24 the main concern, is what was going on here locally in our community.

25 And then, again, we spent, you know, a lot of time just really doing both. But it
 28

1 was never the main focus until, again, after the election.

2 Q And was the election kind of change in topic, was that coming from

3 Mr. Rhodes? Or was it, you know, everyone kind of sharing the same concerns?

4 A It was everyone.

5 Q Okay. Got it.

6 A But heavily Mr. Rhodes, but it was everyone.

7 Q Okay. Did you or anyone from your chapter attend the December 12th

8 rally in Washington, D.C.?

9 A I believe Kelly did.

10 Q Okay. So Mr. Meggs, again, was it to provide event security, personal

11 security?

12 A Wait. You said on December 12th?

13 Q Yes. In Washington, D.C.

14 A From what I know on December 12th, they picked up Mr. Stone. It was a

15 Roger Stone event.

Q Was it in D.C.?

A I thought they picked him up from -- I thought it was in -- something in

18 Miami.

19 Q Okay.

20 A But I do know that Kelly was in D.C. Hold on.

21 Q No worries. Thank you.

22 A Okay. Yeah, I know they went to D.C., but that might have been in

23 November. I don't know. But I do know Kelly Meggs went to a Trump rally before

24 January.

25 Q Okay. But you're tracking, in December, though, a Mr. Stone event that
 29

1 you all coordinated with?

2 A Yeah.

3 Q Okay.

4 A Stewart Rhodes introduced -- I think he reached -- I think Stewart reached

5 out to Kelly and said: Hey, Roger Stone is going do some events in Florida. Why don't

6 you gather some people together to provide security?

7 Q Got it.

8 What was the relationship between Mr. Rhodes and Mr. Roger Stone?

9 A I do not know.

10 Q Okay.

11 A I just know that he knew him. And I just first learned that when Kelly said:

12 Hey, there are some events and Stewart wants us to do security for Roger Stone.

13 Q Got it. How did you all -- and this is actually kind of getting into my next

14 group of questions. So I'm actually going to backtrack just a little bit, and just let me

15 know if you heard of these individuals being provided security by the Oath Keepers.

16 So Mr. Ali Alexander?

17 A Just for the January 6th event.

18 Q Okay.

19 A But not only for him, but for his -- his -- the speakers at the event. I don't

20 know that anybody necessarily said we're doing it for him, just for the VIP speakers.

21 Q Got it.

22 A Because he was, like, apparently helped put the Stop the Steal rally together.

23 But yeah.

24 Q So what -- I guess, when did you first start tracking Stop the Steal? Was

25 that something that you-all were involved with in November-December timeframe?

 30

1 A Yeah, again, after the election that, you know, we saw that they were having

2 the Stop the Steal rally. And, yes, after the election.

3 Q And this is another -- and this is just me trying to understand. You

4 mentioned earlier like a difference between the Black Lives Matter movement and the

5 Black Lives Matter organization.

6 A Yes.

7 Q Can you help me understand Stop the Steal? Because I feel like there might

8 be something like that as well.

9 A Oh, I guess it -- Stop the Steal, just people that believed that the election was

10 not fair and that it was not actual and that it was stolen. And people that were -- did

11 not want to stand for that and that people were continuing to fight for our country.

12 Q Who was the leader of Stop the Steal, whether it be the movement,

13 organization? And just help us understand that, if you know.

14 A I don't know of a leader.

15 Okay.

16 I see you might have a question.

17 BY

18 Q Hi again, Ms. Propes.

19 A Hello.

20 Q Do you believe the 2020 election was stolen?

21 A I do.

22 Q Was that belief widespread among the Oath Keepers?

23 A I think that belief is widespread among most people I know.

24 Q Got it.

25 A Not Oath Keepers.

 31

1 Q Are there particular parts of the country that you think there was voter fraud

2 in?

3 A Everywhere that I know of just from -- just from news sources and things

4 that I've seen online.

5 Q Got it.

6 A Especially Michigan. I don't know. There's all kinds of stories all around

7 the country of people talking about their experiences with voter fraud.

8 Q Sure. Do you remember any other places aside from Michigan?

9 A I don't know. Maybe Texas. I really don't know off the top of my head.

10 Q Who do you think was responsible for the voter fraud?

11 A Can I have a break, please?

12 Oh, yeah, please, please, please. We'll go off. It's, let's see, it

13 is 10:52. Do you want to come back at 11 a.m. eastern time?

14 Mr. Rickman. Yes.

15 Okay. Thanks. We'll come back at 11. All right.

16 [Recess.]
 32

2 [10:59 a.m.]

3 It is approximately 10:59 a.m. eastern time, and we'll go back on

4 the record with

5 BY

6 Q So, Ms. Propes, we were talking about the 2020 election and your thoughts

7 on who might have been responsible for voter fraud in that election.

8 A I believe that there are a group of people whose hate for Donald Trump is

9 much greater than their love for this country and that they would do anything it took at

10 all costs to make sure that he did not win the election, specifically, people on the left that

11 were against Donald Trump.

12 Q Got it. And do you mind elaborating on who these people are? Are they

13 people in power, everyday people?

14 A I believe the people in power would have the everyday people do the work.

15 Q Got it. Are these people related to antifa?

16 A No, no, no. Just people -- people who were against Trump. No, not

17 antifa. I'm talking about big people.

18 Q Got it. Do you have an example of anyone you have in mind?

19 A Goodness.

20 Mr. Rickman. Yeah. Alondra and I talked about this, if I may interject. These

21 are personal opinion questions. You're not going to be judged or held accountable for

22 what you believed at the time or what you may, you know, still believe. They are asking

23 for background questions. You're not going to -- people in this country can have

24 opinions. Whether you agree or disagree with opinions is a different story. But they're

25 trying to get some background on a lot of the mindset of the people who were involved in
 33

1 this.

2 Am I correct, Counsel?

3 You are absolutely right, Mr. Rickman.

4 Ms. Propes, I've talked to Mr. Rickman before. I know you

5 haven't been on those calls. And essentially, when we ask these questions, it's because

6 like we read things in Signal chats or we can read things on paper and we can draw a

7 certain idea of an individual, but when we hear exactly what your beliefs are and your

8 opinions, it allows us to better understand the person, Ms. Propes, rather than just what

9 we see on paper.

10 So that's exactly -- if you hear some of these probing questions about your

11 personal opinions, it's not about the Oath Keepers at large. It's just about you, a

12 member of Oath Keepers at that time, and what you all might have been thinking or what

13 you might have been thinking postelection leading into January 6th.

14 Ms. Propes. Okay. So I believe people in Congress, elected leaders -- are you

15 locked? No.

16 I mean like, for example, like Hillary Clinton, you know, the last election, I believe

17 she would have done anything it took. Again, not her --1 know there are people that do

18 things for people in power to help them out, because they would think there's some kind

19 of benefit for them.

20 BY

21 Q Got it. That's helpful. Thank you, Ms. Propes.

22 Did -- you know, when you might have been talking about these issues with other

23 Oath Keepers, did you talk about potential actions that Oath Keepers might need to take,

24 such as going to polling places, either before the election, during the election, or after the

25 election?
 34

1 A No, not at that time. We weren't really doing any of this before the

2 election. It was after the election when we saw all the fraud. But, no, we were not

3 making any plans before the election.

4 Q So, after the election, what were the kind of actions that people were

5 discussing?

6 A After was just the research, trying to gather all the information they could to

7 figure out how to go about somebody investigating the fraud. We didn't plan on going

8 anywhere. We were gathering information to give it to this attorney, who was going to

9 try to do something about holding those that performed the fraud accountable.

10 Q Got it. So, to your knowledge, there was no discussion of going anywhere

11 to deal with these issues?

12 A No, no.

13 Okay. Thanks, Ms. Propes.

14 I'll turn it back to

15 Ms. Propes. Thank you.

16 Any other staff have any followup questions after that?

17 BY
18 Q So, going back to the individuals, I know you mentioned, Ms. Propes, that

19 you were aware of Oath Keepers providing personal security for Mr. Alexander on -- or his

20 VIPs for January 6th and speakers. And then Mr. Roger Stone, I've heard you mention

21 him as well.

22 What about General Michael Flynn?

23 A I've never heard of that.

24 Q Okay. Mr. Alex Jones?

25 A I've never heard of that.

 35

1 Q Mr. Ed Martin?

2 A I don't know who that is.

3 Q Okay. Any Congressional Members? Have you heard of Oath Keepers

4 working with any Congressional Members?

5 A No. So -- so, right before January 6th, Kelly Meggs came to everybody in

6 the Signal chat, said: Hey, guys, we have this great opportunity to provide security for

7 Roger Stone in D.C. And everybody was like, oh, wow, okay.

8 And then he came back later and said: Wait a minute, I have better news. We

9 have an opportunity to provide security for -- pretty much for Trump, for all the speakers

10 on the stage at the event. So, forget Roger Stone, we're moving up. You know, we're

11 going to get to provide security at the stages for the VIPs at the Ellipse on the 6th.

12 Q Okay. Did you remember like -- I think you just mentioned a Congressional

13 Member. Were there any Congressional Members that you all were supposed to

14 provide security for on the January 5th or 6th? Do you recall any names or any

15 Members?

16 A I do not.

17 Q Okay.

18 A Then, again, I was not there. I was not going to attend, okay, for security.

19 I was there to attend the rally. But I was -- still listened in on their discussions. And all

20 I know is that Kelly said that he was going to have a call with a bunch of Congressional

21 Members and Ali Alexander and whoever. Because he actually believed that -- that they

22 were going to be working with Secret Service.

23 Q Got it.

24 A And then, when they got there or had this meeting, the Secret Service was

25 like, no, we don't need you all.

 36

1 Q So Mr. Meggs had communicated to you all that some Oath Keepers that

2 were providing security will be working with Secret Service for the January 6th

3 protection?

4 A Yes. So, like right before the 6th, there were some other chats that I were

5 not involved in. They were I guess Signal chats and Zoom calls for leadership-type

6 people. And they were doing the -- the details of the actual security, and I was not

7 involved in that.

8 Q Got it. And we'll get into some of these Signal chats. I know you actually

9 produced a couple for us, which we appreciate, and there's others that we're aware of.

10 And I'll go through them actually shortly, and you can just tell me if you were a member

11 or if you weren't.

12 Before we get there, though, I just want to make sure that we're complete. Did

13 you I guess participate in any election-related protests in Florida at all after the election

14 before January 6th?

15 A No.

16 [Discussion off the record.]

17 Mr. Rickman. Just to make sure we're overarching. I want to make sure there

18 aren't any specific, but I'm going to have her itemize for you every event or rally that she

19 did attend, just to make a clear record for her purposes as well as your purposes.

20 Sounds good. Thank you.

21 Ms. Propes. Yes. So, prior to the election, I went to a Trump rally in Ocala,

22 Florida.

23 BY

24 Q Okay.

25 A That was the time I met Kelly Meggs. And then the Million MAGA March,
 37

1 that was actually -- I didn't go to that, but you were asking about it earlier. That was

2 November 14th.

3 Q Yes.

4 A And it's the one that Kelly went to.

5 Q Okay. And were you aware -- I'm just making sure I understand the

6 universe. Are you aware of any Oath Keepers that did poll watching separately from just

7 going to the events?

8 A I'm not aware of any.

9 Q Just Ms. SoRelle going to Michigan?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Okay.

12 A She did that before we even knew her.

13 Q Before you even knew her, correct. Okay. I know she came and briefed

14 you on it?

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q Okay. Do you recall the name Stephen Brown or Resource Media Group?

17 A No.

18 Q And, again, before January 2021, you were familiar with the term "stop the

19 steal," the group "stop the steal"?

20 A I didn't know it was a group. I just thought it was the name of the rally.

21 Q Got it. Got it. And how did you find out the name of the rally? Was it

22 online, through social media, or --

23 A Yeah, Face book. Probably Twitter. Yeah.

24 Q Okay.

25 Okay. Does anyone have any followup before we move on?

 38

1 Okay. So I just --

3 Yes,

4 Sorry, and thank you.

5 BY

6 Q I have just, you know, a followup question that's not quite related to what

7 we were just talking about, but it's related to things we were talking about a little earlier.

8 You've mentioned Signal a couple of times, and I know you've produced some

9 Signal chats. Were you all using Zella as well?

10 A No.

11 Q Okay.

12 A I didn't. I was not on Zella.

13 Q Got it. But were you aware that other Oath Keepers were using Zella to

14 communicate?

15 A No, I was not.

16 Q Okay. So Signal and GoToMeeting were the primary ways you would

17 communicate?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Got it. Thank you.

20 BY

21 Q So I'm going to jump past January 6th, just to give you an idea where we're

22 going, just to talk about any FBI or DOJ cooperation. Then we'll come back to January

23 5th and 6th specifically.

24 So, since January 6th, you've been contacted and interviewed with law

25 enforcement, right?
 39

1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay. Approximately how many times have you met with them?

3 A I've met with them twice.

4 Q And did you provide material or documents at all to DOJ or FBI?

5 A I gave them my phone, and I gave them a copy of the Signal chat.

6 Mr. Rickman. That's on the phone, yeah.

7 Ms. Propes. Yeah.

8 BY

9 Q And they still have your phone. Is that correct?

10 A Yes.

11 Q Okay. I just want to make sure we hit that. That's all. One second, just

12 looking through my notes.

13 I guess also going back to pre-January 6th, we've seen texts or Signal chats

14 referencing civil war, even like tweets referencing civil war.

15 Is that something you heard leading up to January 6th about civil war or 1776 or

16 revolutionary war?

17 A Yes, mainly by Stewart Rhodes.

18 Q What did you take that to mean?

19 A I just took it to mean pretty much like the left versus the right, kind of.

20 That's mainly what I took it to mean.

21 Q Did you take it seriously, though, that there could actually be a revolutionary

22 war or a civil war?

23 A Not in the sense of seeing people out in the streets with their weapons, not

24 in that sense. But just in the figurative speaking of war, if that makes sense.

25 Q It does, but -- and I get it. Like, not like the nation-state traditional type of
 40

1 war that we might think of.

2 But what about violence, was that kind of in what you were thinking could be

3 possible with this 1776 or Civil War rhetoric?

4 A I don't know -- I forgot to mention the example of my own personal

5 experience with violence. August 14th, you know, again, this is after I helped paint the

6 mural, the Back the Blue, and then everybody was doxed and stuff.

7 Well, on the 14th, I went out to a BLM rally just as a spectator. I stood around,

8 and I listened to them speak and everything. I was trying to get an idea of who all was

9 attending these and, you know, what they were talking about.

10 And this little short -- this little midget girl and these two biggo boobs, they came

11 up to me. And she said -- and the girl put a camera in my face, right up to my face, and

12 said: What are you doing in our protest?

13 So I believe she recognized me from the -- painting the Back the Blue.

14 And she and these two guys physically forced me out of the park. It was a public

15 park in front of Tampa PD where they were having their protest. And I was in fear for

16 my own safety. They followed me all the way to my car and made me leave. And

17 that's the kind of violence I'm talking about.

18 So, when we're talking about civil war, we're talking about people with this belief

19 versus that belief. So, again, that was an example of me being totally harassed and

20 bullied and threatened with -- I was in fear of my life from these people.

21 Q I'm sorry. I'm very sorry to hear that. I guess what I'm trying to

22 understand, though, is that incidents that you described, unfortunately, when there's

23 been civil disturbances of political disbeliefs, have occurred throughout American history.

24 But, in this instance, it seemed like the rhetoric was more civil war/revolutionary war.

25 I'm trying to understand why it went to that level versus kind of, you know -- and
 41

1 I'll take your own words -- protecting against antifa or BLM that was used over the

2 summer. So why did it go from protect against Antifa/BLM to civil war/1776?

3 A I can't answer that.

4 Q Okay.

5 A I can't answer that. I don't know. Again, I'm not very good at history.

6 didn't participate in those conversations. I don't -- I don't know enough about war.

7 But I know all the old guys were talking about, you know, all that stuff, and it just always

8 kind of just flew over my head.

9 I don't -- I don't understand exactly why they were talking about civil war. And,

10 again, I never had the picture of people standing in the streets with -- you know, on one

11 side and this side and, you know, having a battle. I never had that picture. I don't

12 know if they did or not. They might. I don't know.

13 Q Got you. Okay. But the imagery of war, civil war, it was -- it wasn't -- it

14 was regularly used or tell me how frequently it was used in the Signal chats and the

15 groups?

16 A Just occasionally. They'd get to just talking about things, but it wasn't

17 like -- they talked about crazy things like that, but it wasn't -- it wasn't the focus. I mean,

18 these people were pretty, you know, for the most part, grounded. I mean, they would

19 go and have those discussions, but nobody was -- it wasn't like an everyday thing, or I

20 don't think I would have been involved because that's kind of weird.

21 Q Did the revolutionary war/civil war rhetoric come up, in your opinion,

22 because the election had been stolen? Is that why it was starting to come up?

23 A I think it came up because Stewart Rhodes brought it up --

24 Q Got it.

25 A -- all the time. He's the one.

 42

1 Q Got it.

-
2 Does that trigger any followup from any other staff members?

4 BY-

5 Q Just a quick followup on that. Did Mr. Rhodes ever mention any allies

6 when he was talking about his civil war language, any other groups?

7 A No.

8 Q No? So he didn't say: Yeah, we have friends out there who would help us

9 in this battle?

10 He just used the words "civil war"?

11 A Yeah. Not that I am aware of did he mention any allies.

12 Q And what about any of those other older guys you were talking about, any of

13 them talk about war?

14 A No, they didn't mention. They just -- that's why the Oath Keepers were,

15 you know, getting together and trying to protect our communities, but, no, they never

16 mentioned anybody else.

17 Q Okay. So they didn't talk about working with militias or --

18 A No, not really. We were -- okay. If you're talking about like some alliance

19 between the Proud Boys militia and us, that was discussed, but it wasn't as in forming

20 like -- you know, forming up.

21 It was just we knew the Proud Boys would be at these events. And the

22 Proud -- and the Oath Keepers definitely distanced themselves from Proud Boys because

23 we didn't operate like them. They were more -- in my opinion, more like a street gang.

24 And we were more like, you know, organized, law enforcement, you know, trying to keep

25 the peace, and they weren't. But they were more like -- they would like physically try to
 43

1 stop things, and we were trying to, you know, be peaceful.

2 Q Okay. But -- so, in terms of like -- but talking about war, right, that doesn't

3 sound super peaceful. But you're saying like in those conversations, it wasn't we're

4 going to ally with the Proud Boys who we think are a little off their rocker, but maybe

5 talking about what about local other groups that supported law enforcement or

6 something like that?

7 A No. And also everything that the Oath Keepers, to my knowledge,

8 everything that was done was in -- was defense. It was never like: Let's go after these

9 people.

10 It was like: Let's protect our people.

11 I've never heard of anybody saying: Let's go -- you know, let's go get rid of all

12 these people that don't agree with us.

13 It was always about defense and security and making sure that people were safe,

14 always.

15 Q So, besides the Proud Boys, no other -- I just want to make sure, because

16 when I said "militias," you were like, "Oh," and if anyone else besides the Proud Boys

17 comes to mind.

18 A Yeah. So, in Louisiana, there was a militia called the Louisiana Cajun Militia.

19 I think we might have like -- you know, somebody might have reached out to them and

20 said: Hey, we know the NFAC is coming to your city. Do you all need any help? You

21 know, just backup or whatever.

22 But those were the only two that come to my mind.

23 Q Okay. So, basically, if you sensed a threat, right, then you would reach out

24 to -- or someone at least reached out to this Louisiana group and said: We know

25 something bad could happen. We'd be willing to help out.

 44

1 That kind of thing?

2 A Right.

3 Q All right. And was any of that related to the January 6th discussion, or is

4 that the only time you remember it?

5 A It was not related to January 6th.

6 Q Okay.

7 A Yeah.

8 - I really appreciate it. Thank you very much.

9 Ms. Propes. Uh-huh.

10 BY

11 Q So the Florida Oath Keeper chapter, did you all have like a directory or a

12 contact list that you were able to talk to folks?

13 A No. The way -- okay. Once you're in the Signal chat, you can, you know, if

14 you're interested in having -- are you talking about conversations between the Oath

15 Keepers?

16 Q I guess I'm just trying to -- like, it's an organization. It seems like it's a fairly

17 organized organization and chapter. Was there like a directory? Was there a chapter

18 list, anything like that that you recall?

19 A Not that I recall. Like I said, if you wanted to reach out to somebody in the

20 Signal chat, if their -- like, if they were in the OK Florida chat, you could click on their

21 name and you could directly contact them that way.

22 Now, Mike Adams had a -- he did have a list, like an Excel spreadsheet of the

23 different members. And any time somebody new would come in, he would write their

24 name and their email address, their address, and then which section of Florida they lived

25 in. But he kept it. It wasn't like -- it wasn't like something that we all had access to.
 45

1 He kept it since he was kind of the leader.

2 Q That makes sense. That makes -- can you also -- and this is also from the

3 chapter. Was there, in your opinion, you know, differences between members that

4 were former military and members that were former law enforcement? Were there

5 cliques within the organization, in your opinion?

6 A I don't -- not that -- no, I don't believe. I mean Kelly Meggs, he was a

7 leader. He was not law enforcement or military.

8 Q Okay. And, within the group, was there ever I guess discussions about the

9 value of law enforcement or former law enforcement or military or former military? Did

10 you all discuss the value of those individuals in the country?

11 A No. We supported the Active Duty ones, and we respected the retired, but

12 they were just -- I mean, I think we all felt like we were all a part of it together. I don't --

13 Q When it came to the discussion -- and I get it, it wasn't like every day, but

14 civil war/1776, was, you know, having a lot of former military and former law

15 enforcement, was that brought up in that context?

16 A Not -- no.

17 Q Okay.

18 A No.

19 Q You've mentioned some ways that Oath Keepers communicated. I want to

20 make sure I understand how you all might have talked to each other. Did you

21 communicate via email?

22 A We all had ProtonMail accounts.

23 Q Got it. Did you have a Proton Mail account before you joined the Oath

24 Keepers?

25 A No.
 46

1 Q Who I guess advised you to get a ProtonMail account?

2 A I believe that's the first thing. Like the first day I joined, the first

3 conversation I got into, they welcomed me in and said: Get you a ProtonMail account.

4 And I think it was Stewart Rhodes.

5 Q Okay. So you actually talked to Stewart Rhodes shortly after joining the

6 organization?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Can you just tell --

9 A I believe it was a Zoom call. I'm sorry, a GoToMeeting call.

10 Q Does he talk to every new member that joins?

11 A No. Okay. So, again, my brother, my baby brother, he was in the Navy.

12 He told me of this group. And he -- I don't know how he'd met Stewart Rhodes, but

13 Stewart really liked him. And, in the beginning, they, you know, communicated back

14 and forth.

15 And then it was not but a month or two after I joined, my brother said: Get out

16 of the Oath Keepers.

17 And he did not like Stewart Rhodes, and he said: You need to leave.

18 And I didn't. I should have taken his advice, but I didn't.

19 Q Okay.

20 A So I don't know if I answered your question. But no. So the reason I was

21 able to talk to Stewart Rhodes is my brother wanted to introduce me: Hey, Stewart, this

22 is my big sis that I told you about.

23 And he was proud of me, and so -- but, no, most people don't just directly join and

24 talk to Stewart Rhodes.

25 Q Why did your brother separate, I guess a couple months after you joined,
 47

1 from the Oath Keepers?

2 A So he was having some problems. He thought Stewart was shady. And

3 then he told us about some like -- the Oath Keepers not paying their taxes. And then

4 he -- and then he said, just from his circles, he heard that they were -- that the FBI was

5 trying to dismantle the Oath Keepers.

6 And he said, "Sis," he said, "I got you into this," he said, "but you need to get back

7 out. I don't want you involved with this anymore," he said, "because they're going

8 to -- the FBI is trying to take them down and any militia group, and you don't need to be a

9 part of that."

10 And I said: Okay.

11 But, you know, I had already formed some bonds, friendships with these people.

12 And I didn't -- I knew I wasn't doing anything that, you know, was -- could have got me in

13 trouble, as far as I knew. And I just stayed in.

14 Q So I guess help us understand why the FBI, from your impression or your

15 brother's impression, trying to take down the Oath Keepers if your mission, for example,

16 was defensive in posture? What was going on there?

17 A Apparently, they've been trying to for years. I don't -- he didn't give me

18 specifics. I know another Oath Keeper from Colorado had reached out to him once and

19 said: Hey, for some reason, the FBI came out to our headquarters and just started, you

20 know, asking questions and trying to get involved, and just wanting to let everybody

21 know that this is going on.

22 This was back, you know, right -- pretty soon after I joined that he said that, that

23 the FBI had came out to their place.

24 Yeah. So I don't know specifically what they were looking for or why, but I

25 guess -- I think it was just a well-known thing that they'd been trying to do it for years,
 48

1 trying to take them down.

2 Q I guess considering the fact that so many Oath Keepers are former law

3 enforcement and this was the FBI like under former President Trump, was this surprising

4 to you to hear this?

5 A That so many --

6 Q 1guess so many Oath Keepers are former law enforcement, right? This is

7 the FBI. This is the Bureau under former President Trump. Was it surprising to hear

8 that the FBI was trying to take down the Oath Keepers at this time?

9 A Yes, it was.

10 Q What were your thoughts about it? What was your response to hearing

11 about it?

12 A Well, just from my knowledge of the FBI -- and don't get me wrong because

13 when I was a little girl that's what I wanted to do. Now, I don't -- the FBI, from general

14 knowledge, does not have a good name at all. It's politicized, and it's not about law

15 enforcement anymore. It's more about politics is what I'm -- is what I think.

16 Q Okay. Thank you for sharing that. I thank you.

17 What was the purpose of having ProtonMail rather than email?

18 A Just so everybody -- so it was uniform, and they also talked about the

19 encryption, which that doesn't -- it's no big deal. I don't --

20 Q So it was similar to, for example, just having like the Signal, just for email,

21 just the protection?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Were there any other email apps or text message apps that you used other

24 than Proton and Signal?

25 A No.
 49

1 Q ProtonMail, sorry.

2 A No.

3 Q Okay. Did you all -- did you ever have the occasion of using Zella at all

4 while you were in the Oath Keepers?

5 A No, we didn't use it. Now, we listened in because some of their -- antifa

6 would have different chats going on, and if they didn't make it private, you could listen in

7 to what they were talking about.

8 So I've listened in to a few different things of -- because they'll get on there, and

9 they'll talk about, you know, where they're going to be and what time they're going to be

10 there and making their plans to do whatever they did or whatever.

11 And we would listen in. But you couldn't always. Sometimes you could.

12 Sometimes you couldn't. It just depended if they made it public or private. But we

13 never communicated that way. I never did. I was never involved in that.

14 Q Why was it important for Oath Keepers to use the encrypted messaging app?

15 Like, did you -- I guess just help us understand why it was important.

16 A Just because, again, a lot of -- a lot of these guys, just in my opinion, whether

17 it was they're retired law enforcement or military, it's like, once they retired, they never

18 really retired, and they were -- it's just in their blood to continue to do things like they

19 might have done if they were still active.

20 I mean even -- somebody even told us about how to -- it was just like kind of silly

21 stuff. It's not -- like, we had to -- okay. So we were taught about how to like write

22 down a message in cursive on a piece of paper and then take a picture of it and email it.

23 And, again, it was just kind of like almost like play, like grown people kind of -- I don't

24 know. It was just kind of weird.

25 So, if you did it that way, then somebody couldn't just read the email. They
 50

1 would have to, you know -- or a machine couldn't read cursive. So I don't know, just

2 kind of some spy types. I don't know, just kind of -- some of it was kind of silly.

3 Q Got it. Okay.

4 A But I mean, there was nothing top secret going on in those messages. It

5 was just -- just plans like -- well, okay, so, for example, like maybe they might have

6 emailed -- okay, no, this is a legit thing.

7 Say they were going on one of their operations like out to Louisville or something.

8 They emailed the -- where they were supposed to meet up at and stuff, you know, and

9 they didn't want just anybody knowing where they were going to be at.

10 So stuff like -- again, nothing top secret, just things that -- because, I mean,

11 because just as we were trying to figure out what antifa was up to, they were trying to

12 figure out what we were doing. And, you know, we were -- didn't want confrontation,

13 didn't want them coming out to, you know, where our group was going to be or

14 whatever.
 51

2 BY
3 Q Okay. I want to go through -- and this is -- just to give you background, this

4 is from the recent indictment of Mr. Rhodes. I know there were several other folks that

5 are listed on there. I just want to get your quick summary on any interactions you may

6 have had with them and just your general impression of them.

7 So I don't think it's necessary to pull the indictment out. So I'm not going to do

8 that, but I'm just going to go through the names. You mentioned Kelly Meggs already.

9 So he's the president of the Florida chapter, correct? Anything else to add to that?

10 A No. And, again, he was -- it was just by default. Kelly has this big

11 personality, and he could rally people and just a really good guy. And he would be like,

12 you know: Hey, we got to keep this moving.

13 You know, he was really excited to be involved in this. Never in a million years

14 did we think it would take the turn for the worse.

15 I mean, his mom died maybe less than a year ago. And he would just say: My

16 mom would be so proud if she could see what we're doing to save our country.

17 I mean, that's what people believed. They didn't believe that they were doing

18 wrong. So yeah. I think I got off track.

19 Q Well, no, that was actually perfect. And so "save our country" was in

20 response to the perception or belief that the election was stolen. Is that fair?

21 A Yeah. And not just -- this is before the election. Just save our country

22 from people, anybody that was trying to do evil against our country.

23 Q Okay.

24 A From within. From without. I mean --

25 Q Okay. What about Mr. Kenneth Harrelson?

 52

1 A Yeah. He was a previous military, really, really nice guy, quiet guy. And

2 he -- and I'll tell you this: He had no leadership role. He was quiet, didn't say much.

3 But he -- absolutely, he was still -- in his mind, he was still in the military.

4 He loved all his guns, his equipment. He was proud of -- I mean, talking about

5 vests and cameras and stuff. It was just like just a big, big kid that grew up, and he was

6 still -- that was just who he was.

7 I mean, he never talked of violence. He just talked about: This is my

8 equipment, you know, I'm -- and he would like practice at the range or whatever. It was

9 just like -- just like a lot of people do, you know, a lot of people that enjoy shooting as a

10 sport.

11 Q Do you remember what branch Mr. Harrelson was in?

12 A Army, I believe.

13 Q Okay. Ms. Jessica Watkins?

14 A I met her on January 6th.

15 Q And what was your -- I'm sure that was probably a chaotic time to meet her,

16 but what was your general impression of her?

17 A And, actually, I'd seen her on some of the chats before, but that -- I'd seen

18 her name up there, but the first time I met her, she seemed -- seemed like a nice person

19 to me, but I didn't have much interaction with her. That was the first time I met her.

20 Q Okay. Do you know if she was a veteran or former law enforcement?

21 A Yes, she was.

22 Q A veteran?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Okay. Mr. Joshua James?

25 A I first met him on -- no, I did not meet Joshua James, never met Joshua
 53

1 James.

2 Q Mr. Roberto Minuta?

3 A Never met him.

4 Q Joseph Hackett?

5 A Yes. Joseph Hackett, he was -- he's so awesome. He is the sweetest

6 person. He's a chiropractor, or he was. He joined this. He and I had a conversation

7 one time. We talked about -- I'd wanted to be military. I ended up having my baby

8 early -- young, and I was single. So it didn't work out for me. And he was talking about

9 he wished that he had been in the military. Just a real -- a real great guy. He just

10 wanted to step up and wanted to do what he could for his community, and he loved the

11 USA and --

12 Q Do you remember what branch Mr. Hackett was in?

13 A I believe -- I believe Army.

14 Q Army as well. Okay.

15 Mr. David Moerschel?

16 A Never met him.

17 Q Okay.

18 A Or I -- no. He was -- I think he was there, but I didn't know his name at the

19 time, and I don't think I ever interacted with him.

20 Q Did you just know his call sign activity?

21 A Wait, wait. Wait a minute. Hold on. Hold on.

22 Q Okay, no worries.

23 A This might be one that I did not even meet. If he was the one they called

24 Smurf, if he was wearing a blue bandanna. I don't -- no, I cannot say that I know him.

25 He might have been with our group that was at the VIP section. We were all sitting in a
 54

1 big row together. He might have been there, but I don't know.

2 Q Okay.

3 A Not wearing a --

4 Q Mr. Brian Ulrich or Ulrich?

5 A Never met him.

6 Q Okay. Mr. Thomas Caldwell?

7 A I never met him. He -- I might have seen him on the 6th if he was in that

8 row of us all sitting out there, but I never met him personally. I don't know of him.

9 Q And then Mr. Edward Vallejo?

10 A Never met him.

11 Okay. I believe my colleague-might have a few

12 questions for you.

13 Ms. Propes. Okay.

14 - Yes. Thank you,

15 BY-

16 Q Hi, Ms. Propes.

17 A Hello.

18 Q I wanted to follow up on a couple of points you made in the last

19 conversation. And the first question I had was related to your comments about the FBI,

20 which I thought were really interesting. So I wanted to unpack that.

21 You said that you thought the FBI is now focused more on politics than law

22 enforcement. And I guess is that a widely shared belief amongst the Oath Keepers?

23 Was that discussed?

24 A Not really a belief. I never discussed it really with the Oath -- just people in

25 general. I mean, just --

 55

1 Q Okay.

2 A -- on social media or just people, average people that I've came in contact

3 with believe that the FBI is politicized. And -- yeah. Go ahead.

4 Q Go ahead.

5 A Again, when I said about politics, I mean about investigations, trying to -- you

6 know, investigating Trump and making sure that he stays out of power, that type of stuff.

7 Q Got it. So does that mean that they were not focused on the kind of

8 threats that you've spoken about earlier in the call?

9 A I don't know what they were focused on.

10 Q So I guess a broader question that occurred to me in your discussion of the

11 FBI is, did you believe that you were stepping in to help save the country from some of

12 these threats, BLM, antifa, because Federal law enforcement, like the FBI, wasn't focusing

13 on them?

14 A Well, I just knew there was -- it was so widespread that they couldn't do

15 everything. So we were doing what we could here in our little communities, because I

16 know the FBI is not going to be in my neighborhood in Apollo Beach, you know, when

17 antifa comes marching down my road looking for people with Trump signs, you know.

18 So we were -- mine was localized. I knew the FBI couldn't be where I was. So that was

19 my part.

20 Q Got it. So you were really viewing yourself as a complement to State and

21 Federal law enforcement in combating these threats?

22 A Yes.

23 Q That's helpful.

24 - I think that's all I have right now,

25 Thank you.
 56

1 BY

2 Q I just have one followup from that. Did you experience -- in your

3 experience, did your Oath Keeper chapter work with local law enforcement? I know you

4 didn't work with the FBI, but did you work, for example, with your local law enforcement

5 at events?

6 A No. They wanted us to reach out to our local law enforcement just to kind

7 of make contact: Hey, we're the Oath Keepers here.

8 But we never did, at least in my community we didn't.

9 Q How come?

10 A As a matter of fact, we were going to. After the -- after we painted the

11 mural out in front of the Tampa Police Department, there was a -- there was a BLM rally,

12 protest coming up and somebody, maybe Mike Adams said: Why don't you reach out to

13 the local law enforcement, the Tampa Police Department, and let them know that we'll

14 be out there.

15 And I think I had volunteered to do that, because, again, I, you know, being a

16 big-time law enforcement supporter, you know, being prior law enforcement, I thought,

17 well, let me do this. And I tried to reach out. I got a hold of the secretary and never

18 made contact with the chief. And that was that.

19 Q Okay.

20 A Yeah. I did make an attempt, but he wasn't available, and then we got on

21 to something else. But it never happened.

22 It looks like-might have a couple followup or a followup

23 question.

24 - Yes. Thank you,

25 BY-
 57

1 Q I'm curious what the national leadership expressed to you about what the

2 cooperation with law enforcement was supposed to look like if you were to reach out?

3 A Just mainly to know --1 guess, you know, to let them know we had a

4 presence, that, you know -- so a lot of these guys, again, if they're going to go out to

5 provide security somewhere, they might have on some kind of equipment, and we

6 wanted law enforcement to know that that's what we were doing there, that we didn't

7 have -- we were there for security type purposes.

8 Also -- and this never happened that I knew of, but there was also -- I remembered

9 it being mentioned that say that law enforcement has to -- has to respond to a scene and

10 maybe there -- or they might have to respond to something, and if there are people

11 against them for responding to that, then maybe somebody should go out and protect

12 the law enforcement's homes, you know, while they're away. You know, their wife and

13 kids are still at home.

14 Just that kind of stuff. Just kind of letting them know that, hey, we're here.

15 Nobody expected to be, you know, deputized and, you know, ride around in a police car,

16 but they just kind of wanted them to know that, hey, this is what we're doing. We're

17 not -- we don't have evil intents. We're just out here. If you see us, this is what we're

18 doing, just, you know, trying to keep everybody safe.

19 Q Got it. And this was the kind of thing you would do before an expected

20 event, like a BLM rally or something else related to a potential threat?

21 A Yeah. That was the plan. Again, so the whole time President Trump was

22 President, Oath Keepers were not active. There was not -- there wasn't a need, okay?

23 Before he was President, I think they were active. Once he was, there wasn't. Nobody

24 felt the need.

25 After he lost the election, that's when people really started saying: Okay.
 58

1 We've got to get involved.

2 So --

3 Q Could you expand on that just a little bit? Why was there not a need for

4 them to be active for most of the Trump Presidency?

5 A There just -- I don't know. That's just what I've been told from Mike

6 Adams. He said that he'd been in Oath Keepers for a long time, but he said that it

7 wasn't active, and that's why he stepped up as leadership because he wanted to try to get

8 everybody formed again.

9 But that's just what he said. He said during -- he said there was not -- you know,

10 and I had never heard of them until July, the end of July of 2020. That was the first time

11 I'd ever heard of them.

12 Q Okay. And so I just want to kind of dig into that, because July 2020 was

13 obviously still during Trump's Presidency and you got involved in I think, based on your

14 description, a lot of the events around the murders of George Floyd and Breanna Taylor

15 that summer.

16 So why did you think that was a time to step up, even while Trump was President?

17 A Well, beginning with President Obama, that's when the big great divide

18 happened between our country from BLM versus law enforcement. He supported -- he

19 did not support law enforcement, and he encouraged BLM to form up, and that's when

20 the problems started.

21 So, once they formed up under Obama is when things started getting dangerous

22 for anybody that supported Trump or anybody on the right.

23 Q And so you perceived -- again, just trying to understand. You perceived

24 summer of 2020 as a sort of upsurge in BLM activity that necessitated activity on the

25 right?
 59

1 A Again, I was just minding my own business doing whatever until somebody

2 mentioned the Oath Keepers to me, and that's why I joined.

3 But, yes, I did -- I was very aware of all the activity of them, but, again, I wasn't

4 aware of it until I guess the end of Oba ma's Presidency.

5 Q You weren't aware of the Oath Keepers until the end of Oba ma's

6 Presidency?

7 A I wasn't aware of all the problems of BLM and antifa.

8 Q Got it. Got it. And so, thinking through, as the Oath Keepers became

9 more active towards the end of the Trump Presidency, did you see this great divide, as

10 you described it, become really irreparably blown open with the stolen election? Is that

11 kind of a pivot point for you, or was it earlier during the summer?

12 A Will you re-ask that question, please?

13 Q Sure. So you described a great divide that began under Obama because of

14 his support for BLM over law enforcement, and then you said that the Oath Keepers had

15 to get much more active after Trump's Presidency.

16 So I'm asking, did you see the great divide explode when the election was stolen,

17 or was there another point that you thought "this is when we really have to step up"?

18 A No. I think it was prior to the election that the great divide.

19 Q Okay. So that would be more over the summer, during the protests over

20 the summer?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Okay. That's very helpful.

23 A It didn't get better. It stayed bad. It just stayed bad. It didn't get better

24 or worse. It was just -- yeah.

25 Q That's helpful.
 60

3
-
T hank you, Ms. Propes.

Ms. Propes. Uh-huh.

if you want to take over again.

4 BY
5 Q So I promise you we're going to get to January 5th and 6th. We're almost

6 there.

7 So there's a bunch of Signal chats that we're aware of, and thank you for

8 producing the Signal chats you did. I just want to see if you were a member of these

9 Signal chats or if you have any awareness or information about them.

10 A Okay.

11 Q The first one is one called the leadership intel sharing secured.

12 A No, I don't believe.

13 Q The OK Florida Hangout is one of the ones that you produced to us, correct?

14 And that was -- can you describe again like what the nature of that chat was? And we'll

15 later compare it, for example, to the OK Florida DC OP group chat. So what's the

16 Hangout chat?

17 A The Hangout is anybody who joins Oath Keepers, if they pay their

18 membership fee and join, you can be in the OK Florida chat, anybody.

19 We came to find out just by different chats going on that some people maybe

20 were not who they said they were, and they were just trying to infiltrate and trying to,

21 you know, spy, see what was going on. They're trying to start trouble.

22 So then they said: Well, we need to vet people before we let them into our chat

23 that we talk about, you know, sensitive information like, you know, if we're going to

24 attend a rally or if we're going to have this phone call because we didn't want just

25 anybody knowing different plans. Again, not that there was anything top secret. Just,
 61

1 you know, you don't want everybody knowing your location or your plans.

2 Q Right. That makes sense.

3 What about the Dec 12 DC security/leadership group?

4 A No.

5 Q The Oath Keepers of Georgia, were you in that group?

6 A No.

7 Q What about DC OP Jan 6, '21, which I should note is different than the OK

8 Florida DC OP Jan 6?

9 A No. I was just the OK Florida DC OP Jan 6.

10 Q Okay.

11 A But not the other.

12 Q And why was the OK -- I believe I know the answer, but why was the OK

13 Florida DC OP Jan 6 group created, and what was a summary and what was discussed for

14 that one?

15 A That was for everybody that planned on going to D.C., and just talking about

16 travel arrangements and where to meet and stuff like that.

17 Q What about Jan 5-6 DC OP intel team?

18 A No.

19 Q January 5-6 D.C. Oath Keeper VIP chat?

20 A No.

21 Q Were you aware of a D.C. volunteers group chat?

22 A No.

23 - c a n you pull up exhibit 3 for us.

24 And this is going to be the OK Florida DC OP Jan 6 group that you produced to us.

25 Mr. Rickman. I also have a copy here in front of us too, so --

 62

1 Okay, perfect.

2 Thank y o u , _ for pulling it up for me, but this is great they have a copy in

3 front of them.

4 BY

5 Q I just want to -- I understand that a lot of Oath Keepers used call signs, so I

6 just want to go through some of the call signs and see if you know who the individuals

7 are.

8 A Okay.

9 So, if you can go to page 1, the bottom of page 1 , _

10 Patriot Genx right here. Go back up. Sorry. Can you go back up, - Right

11 here.

12 BY

13 Q Patriot Genx, is that Mr. Graydon Young?

14 A Yes.

15 And can we go to page 5 of this,

16 BY

17 Q There's a quote on page 5 where Patriot Genx or Mr. Young says: If Trump

18 wins, we need to stay active and force followthrough on purging traitors?

19 What does that mean?

20 A I do not know.

21 Q Is it kind of a reference -- and this is just me trying to understand -- to like us

22 talking about rhetoric like 1776 or civil war? Would this be an example of maybe one of

23 those kind of references?

24 A Yeah, I believe that has to do with the Insurrection Act because I think, from

25 what I know, is the Insurrection Act, if the President invokes it, then that's when I guess
 63

1 investigations can be made and arrests and all that stuff.

2 Q And who would you all have considered -- and I meant like you, based upon

3 your own perception of what people are talking about -- who would have been

4 considered a traitor?

5 A I guess maybe people who knew that the election was fraudulent and that

6 were not willing to do anything about it.

7 Q And so this statement is made on January 3rd at 11:22 a.m. Going back to

8 January 3rd, at this time, did you or anyone that you talked to think that there was a

9 chance that President Trump would remain in office?

10 A I don't know if we thought that he would, but that was the hope. But --

11 Q Did you think there was like a real possibility, though, I guess is what I'm

12 trying to understand. Like, did you all think like, hey, it's still up in the air, President

13 Trump still might remain in office after January 6th?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay.

16 Can we go back to page 1 , _

17 BY

18 Q Who is Deplorable 1?

19 A I'm not sure who that is.

20 Q No worries. Thank you. Also, on page 1, Turmoil-25, Jason, is that -- I

21 think it's Jason?

22 A Jason Dolan is Turmoil.

23 Q Okay. Perfect. That's what I thought. Got it.

24 Gray Gator, is that the same as -- is that Kelly Meggs the same as Gator 1?

25 A Yes.
 64

1 Q Great.

2 Can we go to page 4 , _

3 BY

4 Q Is GGSoL Jeremy, Jeremy Brown?

5 A Yes.

6 Q It says his name there, but I just got to make sure.

7 A Yes.

8 Q On page 6, there is a GatorBoy GatorBoy. Do you know who that is?

9 A Oh, Caleb, Caleb Berry.

10 Q Caleb Berry. Got it. Okay.

11 Also on page 6, who is Gator 6?

12 A Kenneth Hackett -- I mean Kenneth Harrelson.

13 Q Kenneth Harrelson, okay.

14 If we can just stay on this image right h e r e , _

15 BY

16 Q Speaking of which, this image is the photo of it looks like Gator 6, Gator 1,

17 AP242, Whipit, Ground Force 1 outside the White House.

18 Is this just another example of kind of like that civil war, 1776 that might have

19 been, you know, part of the communication at this time?

20 A Yeah. Again, that was something that Kelly generated. You'd kind of just

21 have to know his personality. I just thought it was kind of cute, you know, kind of

22 getting people, you know, riled up. Again, it's all defensive. It's not towards the White

23 House. It's defending the White House.

24 Q No, I totally understand. Thank you. Defending the White House against

25 the traitors, kind of what was referenced before. Is that fair?

 65

1 A Yes.

2 Q Okay. Who is Whipit on this image?

3 A Jeffrey Morelock.

4 Q Who is Mr. Morelock? I don't think we've heard his name today.

5 A Jeffrey Morelock, he was there -- he was there on the 5th and the 6th. He

6 and I and Jeremy Brown were -- had the mother of the VIP speaker on the day of the 6th.

7 We were getting her -- she got separated from her group, and we were helping her find

8 her group. Jeffrey Morelock never went to the Capitol. He walked the lady back to her

9 hotel.

10 Q Okay. Was he former military?

11 A I believe he was former law enforcement.

12 Q Got you. And was he just -- was he considered like someone of influence in

13 the chapter or just someone who would kind of do these jobs --

14 A Um --

15 Q -- like security?

16 A He didn't have a leadership role. I know that I think Stewart Rhodes kind of

17 really looked up to him or, you know, felt he was trustworthy, dependable. And he did a

18 lot of the different ops. He was there a lot.

19 Q And was he one of the more vocal folks about, you know, the election being

20 stolen or 1776, that you recall?

21 A No. I don't remember him being too vocal at all. He was just kind of laid

22 back, and he wasn't -- he didn't talk crazy as much as the other people.

23 Q Got it. Got it. Okay. AP242 in this photo, who is that?

24 A That's Caleb Berry.

25 Q So he had two call signs?

 66

1 A Yeah. People changed their call signs a lot.

2 Q Got it. So not quite like the military, where you're stuck with it for life?

3 A Correct.

4 Q Okay. What about Cobra Shelby?

5 A I believe that was the girl -- I believe that was William Isaacs' aunt or cousin, I

6 believe. It was a girl.

7 Q Okay.

8 A She was not --

9 And that's page 11. It's page 11, - Sorry.

10 Q Okay. Keep going. I'm sorry. I cut you off.

11 A I'm just saying I don't believe she was from Florida, or I don't really know,

12 but I never -- I had -- I didn't know who she was until she joined this DC OP chat. And I

13 don't even know if I met her on the 6th.

14 Q Okay. On page 14, I think it's Strake G. Do you know who that is?

15 A I do not know who that is.

16 Q Does Tom Burgess ring a bill for Strake G, possibly?

17 A I believe you are correct because all I knew Tom by was Tampa Tom. So he

18 had another name before. And it sounds like that might have been him.

19 Q Whenever I hear "Tampa Tom," I think Tom Brady, so --

20 Mr. Rickman. Well, Tampa [inaudible] brought Tom at some point in time, but

21 we don't know.

22 BY

23 Q What about if we go to page 19, Padimasterdiver?

24 A I do not know who that is.

25 Q You don't know, okay. And it looked like Padimasterdiver had come in
 67

1 from the South Carolina chapter of Oath Keepers. Do you know why they were brought

2 in?

3 A No, I don't.

4 Q Okay. On page 23, there's an individual named Isaacs William or maybe it's

5 William Isaacs. I'm not sure. Do you know who that is?

6 A Yeah. That was the young guy, I think he might be 21 years old. That was

7 the nephew of the Shelby Cobra, I believe.

8 Q Okay. Do you know where that individual lived? Was it in the same area

9 as you or like --

10 A No. The first I ever heard of him, he had just brought him in for this op.

11 He wasn't even an Oath Keeper until -- I mean, at the last minute, I saw on here in the

12 chat he was trying to get his application in so he could come to the D.C. thing. So I don't

13 even know where he's from.

14 Q Is his name Isaacs William or William Isaacs?

15 A William Isaacs.

16 Q Got it. Got it. Okay.

17 On page 28, there's an individual named John Flagler. Do you know who that is?

18 A He is -- I don't know who -- I don't know who he is. I just recognize the

19 name from the different chats. And I think it's because he's from Flagler, Florida.

20 Q Okay. Okay. And then you've already mentioned Ms. SoRelle. What

21 about a Michael Green or a Michael Simmons, maybe goes by call sign Whip?

22 A Yes. I've never met him, but he was like Stewart's right-hand man. And

23 he did a lot of the security at different events, but I never met him.

24 Q Was he an Oath Keeper?

25 A Yes.
 68

1 Q Okay.

2 A A paid Oath Keeper. That was the first time I had heard about Oath

3 Keepers getting paid. I learned that after the fact, that Stewart said that he paid him.

4 Most people put out a lot of money on their own for doing all this stuff, but we found out

5 he paid him.

6 Q How did that make you all feel, that you found out an individual was being

7 paid?

8 A Well, I was pretty upset because I know like the Louisville op and one of the

9 guys that went on it, he was out of his pocket for like 3,000 -- 3- or $4,000 for equipment.

10 And Stewart said he'd pay him back, and he never did.

11 Q Got it. Is that something you would have expected like your dues to go

12 towards?

13 A Yes, that's what I figured they would go towards. But nobody ever told us

14 what they would go towards, or nobody even talked about it. All I knew is that I paid

15 extra. And, looking back, I should have just paid my 50, but anyway.

16 Q I guess I'm going back to the very beginning. When you did your

17 application, was it online, like an online application or like a paper application?

18 A It was on line, I think.

19 Q Do you still have that email or something?

20 A No. I think I went to the Oath Keepers website, and which now I couldn't

21 even tell you where it's at. It was the main Oath Keepers website. You go in there and

22 you click on -- I don't know. I don't even remember if I paid on -- obviously, I paid

23 on line. I didn't -- I never mailed in a check or anything.

24 And then, once you become a member, then you can go into this -- you had access

25 to like the backside of this website. You could go in deeper. But I never spent any
 69

1 time there. A lot of -- there's a chat there too, but I went straight over to Signal, and I

2 never did anything, really, on the other.

3 Q Okay.

4 - can you pull up exhibit 4.

5 BY
6 Q So, as you can see, we're getting more -- so closer to January 5th and 6th

7 now.

8 Exhibit 4 is an open letter, a December 14th letter from Stewart Rhodes.

9 Do you recall this, like an open letter to President Trump about the Insurrection

10 Act?

11 A Yes. I think he put that -- I think he posted it in one of the chats.

12 Q Do you remember what the response was? And just to give you a little

13 background --

14 You can scroll down. Just kind of quickly scroll through it,

15 -

16 BY
17 Q It looks -- sorry, it's being a little slow on that.

18 So the main summary about this was mostly about the Insurrection Act and calling

19 on President Trump. You mentioned this already.

20 Do you remember what the response was within the Oath Keeper chapter about,

21 you know, this open letter for President Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act?
 70

2 [12:00 p.m.]

3 Ms. Propes. Everybody was hoping that he would do it, but I don't.

4 BY
5 Q Okay. Nothing specific really rings out?

6 A No. Well, I mean, that's what they started talking about. That was the

7 main thing, that everybody's gearing up, thinking that he would -- that he would invoke

8 the Insurrection Act. And I guess people were just hoping that he would. But at that

9 time I did not really understand what it was.

10 Q Got it. Got it. Did you-all think the Insurrection Act was actually going to

11 be invoked?

12 A No. No, I don't -- I think some people might have. I don't because I know,

13 prior to January 6th, he had -- some of his advisers were saying that they would not be

14 doing that and advised him against it.

15 Q I guess how did you feel about that, President Trump's own advisers kind of

16 advising him against invoking the Insurrection Act, if you had any thoughts?

17 A Okay. So at the time, if I could go back in my head, I was thinking that the

18 people that were advising him had ill intentions maybe. Like because we know that not

19 everybody who was working for him was good or had good intentions for him.

20 So I guess that's kind of what we thought, that maybe the people who were

21 advising him not to maybe didn't want to see him succeed.

22 Got it. Okay.

23 Can we pull up exhibit 5 , _ ?

24 And this exhibit is really just to orient you.

25 So this is a December 19th tweet from President Trump where he first tweets
 71

1 about January 6th, "Be there, will be wild."

2 Do you recall this tweet?

3 Ms. Propes. Maybe. It doesn't stick out in my mind, but I do -- yeah, I think so.

4 Okay. I believe might have a follow-up for you.

5 You can take the exhibit down.

6 Mr. Rickman. - o n Zoom. We can't hear him. I'm sorry, mute.

7 - I'm sorry. Can you hear me now?

8 Mr. Rickman. We can hear you. It's good.

9 - Great.

10 BY-

11 Q I want to follow up on question about the Insurrection Act.

12 You were saying that some of Mr. Trump's advisers may not have wanted him to do that,

13 didn't necessarily wish him well.

14 What do you think that Mr. Trump wanted to do?

15 A You know, I -- I don't think he planned on doing it. I don't know why.

16 But I really don't.

17 Q And I know we'll get to a discussion of that tweet on December 19th later on

18 as well. But just for now, how did you read that tweet that was just shown to you in

19 terms of what Mr. Trump was asking?

20 A He was just calling him supporters to be there to show support for him, for

21 the election.

22 Q And, more specifically, did you think that was related to some of the queries

23 about the Insurrection Act?

24 A No.

25 - Okay. Thank you,

 72

1 Can we pull up exhibit 6, which is the December 23rd letter from

2 Mr. Rhodes?

3 And this letter, Ms. Propes, again, is very similar to the December 14th one.

4 You can just scroll again, just so Ms. Propes can see. You can scroll slowly. And

5 then once we get through it, I'll ask a few questions.

6 BY

7 Q Again, it's another call for the Insurrection Act, but this time it's on

8 December 23rd.

9 Do you recall this letter separately from the first letter?

10 A I believe I've skimmed over it.

11 Q Okay.

12 A I think he posted it in the chat.

13 Q Okay. Actually you can just stop, -

14 There's a quote in here where Mr. Rhodes says, "Tens of thousands of patriot

15 Americans, both veterans and nonveterans, will already be in Washington, D.C. And

16 many of us will have our mission-critical gear stowed nearby just outside D.C."

17 What did you take it to mean that mission-critical gear will be stowed nearby

18 outside of D.C.?

19 A Weapons.

20 Q Why did you think it would be weapons? I guess -- yeah, just trying to

21 understand that.

22 A In the chat they were discussing whether or not you could bring weapons

23 into D.C. And since it was illegal, nobody was to bring weapons inside D.C., and to my

24 knowledge they didn't.

25 But they wanted them -- you know, most of these guys, they probably sleep with
 73

1 their guns on them as it is. So the fact that they wanted to have their weapons nearby,

2 that was not totally shocking to me.

3 But, I mean, yeah, of course, they brought, you know, a bunch of ammo and stuff.

4 That was kind of a little bit out there. But, yeah, they discussed leaving, if anybody was

5 going to bring weapons, to leave them outside of D.C.

6 Q Did you -- or do you recall similar discussions of weapons before the

7 November rally in D.C.?

8 A No.

9 Q So what made this one different where there's now a discussion of

10 weapons?

11 A The Insurrection Act.

12 Q The Insurrection Act?

13 A [Nonverbal response.]

14 Q So -- that was a positive response from Ms. Propes.

15 But the Insurrection Act, I guess, the weapons were needed because you'd be

16 acting on President Trump's behalf? Is that why?

17 A I don't know. I think -- from what I understand, if the Insurrection Act, if

18 the President does that, then the militias can come up almost kind of like the National

19 Guard type thing --

20 Q Got it.

21 A -- in my understanding.

22 Q No, no, that's helpful. That's helpful.

23 And then just like a couple of days later, right, so you have this open letter from

24 Mr. Rhodes on December 23rd, and then on December 25th -- and we didn't have it in

25 your -- in the Hangout chat that you produced. But we've seen a message where
 74

1 Mr. Meggs said, "We need to make those Senators very uncomfortable with all of us

2 being a few hundred feet away."

3 Do you recall that?

4 A No.

5 Q What would you -- I guess, going back to December 25th, thinking about

6 January 6th, what's your, I guess, just reaction to Mr. Meggs saying, "We need to make

7 Senators very uncomfortable with all of us being a few hundred feet away"?

8 A Just, I guess, just the President -- the presence of a bunch of people knowing

9 that the election was fraudulent. Yeah, that doesn't sound good to me, saying being a

10 hundred feet away or whatever, that doesn't sound good to me.

11 But I thought just being in D.C., showing support, coming out in numbers, and, I

12 mean, that's, to me, that's what rallies are for, protests. You know, if you don't agree

13 with something, you come in numbers to show support for what you believe in and to try

14 to make a change.

15 So I don't know why he -- that sounded -- didn't sound good to me about, you

16 know, being right there. But I think that's what he was talking about, you know,

17 knowing that we all know -- you know, it's like we all know what you-all did and we're

18 here to let you know we know what you did and we want to see to it that, you know, you

19 do the right thing. I didn't have any --

20 Q Ms. Propes, I think it's important for me to get this out now. I talked to

21 Mr. Rickman about this. We know you did not go into the Capitol. We know that

22 you -- I know exactly what Mr. Rickman was thinking. We know that you didn't go in the

23 Capitol. We know that you didn't -- that you were just there for the rallies and on the

24 grounds, even if you were with individuals who went in. We understand that.

25 But can you agree that there is a difference between, you know, coming to D.C. to
 75

1 protest versus maybe a statement of being a few hundred feet away, making people feel

2 uncomfortable? Is that fair to say?

3 A To me -- uh -- hmm. I don't know. I guess what -- this is probably not

4 answering your question, but I guess, to me, I was more concerned about the non-Oath

5 Keepers that were out there angry about what had happened.

6 I mean, those were the just average American people that were out there. They

7 were doing more damage, more harm, more threatening about seeing that this election

8 gets fixed or gets, you know, the right thing happens, than any Oath Keeper that I ever

9 saw. So --

10 Q Thank you. No, that's helpful.

11 So when you mentioned an Insurrection Act and having, you know, weapons

12 outside of D.C. just in case President Trump called on the militia, is it fair to say the Oath

13 Keepers might have thought of themselves as like a militia that could have acted on

14 behalf of President Trump?

15 A Yes.

16 Is there any follow-up from any of my colleagues about that?

17 Mr. Rickman. - if I may, can I --1 think maybe it would provide some

18 context to you if I could have Ms. Propes explain what was going on in her life around this

19 time with these chats, because I know that we had talked about it. She was in Arkansas.

20 She's had stuff recovered.

21 So if you could, explain what you were doing personally during this time.

22 Ms. Propes. Yeah. So my family is from Arkansas. We traveled, I guess, like

23 mid-December, maybe around the 14th or whatever. My family and I loaded up

24 everybody and traveled to Arkansas. Got down -- it's a 2-day drive from Florida. Got

25 down there.
 76

1 And I wasn't feeling good. Christmas Eve,

2 Every now and then I

3 would check the chats to read. I mean, you can see I didn't participate very often.

4 BY

5 Q You didn't. You didn't.

6 A I would read, see what was going on. But half of it, you know, half of it I

7 didn't really read at the time.

8 Now, after the fact, I've done a lot. I've kept up with everything. But a lot of

9 this I didn't really keep up with at the time.

10 So I wanted to go. I wanted to go. I wanted to do security because that's what

11 I had signed up for. My husband was -- he agreed.

12 He was not happy that I was in the Oath Keepers, mainly is because it took up a lot

13 of my time, because I was interested in it. To me, it was -- I had formed some new

14 friendships. And it was mainly guys. He didn't like that part.

15 And then, you know, he didn't want me out there on any mission or any op, you

16 know, with people that are, you know, in vests. And, you know, he didn't want me to do

17 the security.

18 He said I could do it as long as I stayed home and just did the research because

19 that's what I was good at. I would get online and follow the different rallies or just, you

20 know, read articles and stuff. He was fine with that.

21 So I had asked if I could -- if we could go to D.C. And, first, he was not interested.

22 He doesn't do rallies. He's never been to a Trump rally. He doesn't do crowds. He

23 doesn't do any of that.

24 I asked if we could go, and he said he did not want to. And then after I got

25 - he thought I was crazy for even asking him. He was mad t h a t -

 77

2 So, anyway, so he was not happy with me at the time. He doesn't want anything

3 to do with it.

4 Before I had even asked if I could go, I got hotel room reservations and just hoped

5 that he would see the light. So finally we had a big argument.

6 He finally said: Okay, whatever. I'll drive you down there. I'm not going to

7 the rally. He was not happy with me.

8 So that's -- that was the whole thing that was going on. And I agreed not to do

9 any security. I would go out and hang out with the Oath Keepers. I wasn't wearing

10 anything security, any equipment. I was just there to hang out, to hear the President

11 and all the other speakers.

12 Q Understandable. And Mr. Rickman has shared with me some of that. So

13 we're definitely tracking that dynamic.

14 One thing I guess I'm just curious about. Why didn't your husband join the Oath

15 Keepers, if you know?

16 A He is not -- that is just not his thing. I mean, he is not -- we are total -- we

17 are a lot different. I guess that's why opposites attract. He does IT. He has no -- he's

18 never been law enforcement, never been in the military.

19 Again, of course, we have the same, like, political beliefs. He believes the same

20 things. But he didn't -- he never saw what we could actually do to make any changes or

21 help. He was, like: Okay. He just didn't see the -- he didn't see what the benefit of

22 joining this group or, you know, what are you-all going to do, kind of pretty much.

23 Q Makes sense.

24 A Yeah.

25 Q I guess -- and this is just me, just honestly, me just trying to understand
 78

1 better this militia dynamic of President Trump.

2 If you were called -- not you specifically, but the Oath Keepers were called as a

3 militia, what was your understanding of what, for example, the President may ask you-all

4 to do? Right? We've seen "traitors." We've seen that language. What did

5 you-all -- what was being discussed on what you might actually do if you were called as a

6 militia?

7 A You know, I don't know that it was ever -- there was ever any kind of plan on

8 what to do.

9 Q Okay.

10 A And I honestly -- so at the time, like I said before, I didn't even know what

11 that meant. I didn't really -- I didn't really even know the concept of militias or any of

12 that. I just joined because I've always been active in my neighborhood watch. Okay?

13 So I joined this group. And it was a lot more than I could really knew -- knew it would be

14 or whatever.

15 Q Okay. Did you know that January 6th was going to be the certification of

16 the electoral college? Were you tracking that about the date? You just talked about

17 why you wanted to go. But were you tracking, like, I guess, the procedural element of

18 it?

19 A I was going to a big Trump rally. I thought it was going to be historic, "stop

20 the steal," everybody, all my friends.

21 So, first of all, none of my friends or most people don't even know I was an Oath

22 Keeper. It's not something I just went around, you know, not -- nothing that I was trying

23 to hide. But it's not -- I mean, you go to my friends right now, probably most of them

24 don't -- I don't know really -- only maybe one or two actually know that I was involved in

25 any of this.
 79

1 But, no, I wanted to go to the largest Trump rally ever.

2 Q Okay. You were going to that just basically as a rally person but with

3 people you considered your friends or the Oath Keepers? Is that a fair --

4 A Yeah, they were -- I knew they were going and I knew I wanted to go. I had

5 actually asked some of my -- one of my best friends if she wanted to go. And she

6 did -- she wanted to but she couldn't -- didn't -- you know, wasn't able to or whatever.

7 So I just -- that's mainly why -- why I went.

8 Q Okay. So I think you've kind of touched on this. You were tracking then

9 January 5th and 6th, it was going to be like a series of rallies in D.C. that you could just

10 attend with other Trump supporters?

11 A Yes. Yeah, I didn't even really know of anything that was going on, on the

12 5th. I didn't know about that.

13 Q Okay.

14 A I didn't get there, I didn't pull into D.C. till late on the evening of the 5th.

15 was just mainly about the rally on the 6th.

16 Q And how were you tracking updates for the rally on the 6th? Was it

17 through social media and the news? Like how were you tracking updates?

18 A Social media, the news, and then --

19 Q Oh, no. Keep going. I'm sorry.

20 A And then Oath Keepers on Signal, just talking about it.

21 Q Was it your understanding as part of the rally being, you know, starting at

22 the Ellipse near the White House and then going to the Capitol afterwards, was that part

23 of the open plan before?

24 A Yeah, you know. And, again, I was not much involved in the planning.

25 knew we were going to start off at the Ellipse. I didn't really -- and then I knew some -- I
 80

1 knew that there were going to be speakers at the Capitol, but I didn't know all the details.

2 I just knew that they were going to start off at the Capitol and then walk down -- or start

3 off at the Ellipse and walk down to the Capitol.

4 Q Got it. You mentioned earlier -- and this might help.

5 - can we pull up exhibit 3?

6 It's the Oath Keepers chat, the op chat, at page 15.

7 BY
8 Q Okay. So on page 15, this looks like Kelly Meggs. And it looks like he had

9 that call with Stop the Steal about the congressional members and personal security

10 detail that you mentioned earlier.

11 A Yes.

12 Q You don't recall any specific congressional member that you were going to

13 be providing -- or not you, but the Oath Keepers would be providing security for?

14 A No, I don't. I never knew of any names. I think they had a phone call, but

15 I --

16 Q Okay.

17 A He claimed that they were on the phone call, but I don't recall any names.

18 Q Do you know who was on the phone call? Was it just Kelly Meggs? Were

19 there other members that were on the phone call as well from the Oath Keepers?

20 A I do not recall.

21 Q Okay.

22 A Or I do not know. I do not know. I was not involved in that. So I do not

23 know.

24 Q That's fair. And the name Congressman Ronny Jackson, again, never came

25 up?
 81

1 A No, never.

2 Thank y o u , _ You can take that down.

3 BY
4 Q Do you recall or remember hearing about how many people were needed

5 for the security job? Was there like a number that people were trying to reach?

6 A No. Just everybody that could go -- and they wanted everybody that could.

7 Q Okay. Why was it important to have so many people go?

8 A Just to support, show support for the President.

9 Q Got it. So it was like it was kind of a multifocused trip, right, show support

10 for the President and provide personal security details?

11 A Right. I know that they thought that -- they thought that this would be a

12 good thing for the Oath Keepers, you know, that the Oath Keepers would look good and,

13 you know, everybody -- they wanted everybody to do their -- you know, be professional

14 and, you know, dress nice. And, you know, they thought it was going to be a good thing.

15 Never in a million years did anybody realize that it would have the big negative effect.

16 Q Do you know of any -- we mentioned padimasterdiver, and in that chat of

17 yours he says, "South Carolina Oath Keepers here." So I just assumed that he was

18 coming from the South Carolina chapter.

19 Were there any other chapters that you heard discussed, like North Carolina or --

20 A Yeah, North Carolina, there was a guy named, I think, Ranger Doug.

21 Q Yeah.

22 A I think he had like a training facility or some kind of land.

23 So all the Florida people were caravanning, and they were going to stop in North

24 Carolina and stay the night. He had like a big cabin or something. And they stayed the

25 night there and then all drove on up.

 82

1 Q Did they do any like training or anything while they were in North Carolina?

2 A No, no, no, this was like they literally -- they left. I don't know what day

3 they left on. But they drove up, slept, and headed out early the next morning.

4 Q Got it. Okay. And you were tracking this just through, like, the Signal

5 chats, people talking about their plans?

6 A Uh-huh.

7 Q Okay.

8 A Yes.

9 Q Who was part of that caravan you just described? It doesn't sound like you

10 were. So do you know who was in the caravan?

11 A Kelly and Connie Meggs. Jason -- I mean -- I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Kenneth

12 Harrelson, Joe Hackett, Tom, Caleb Berry.

13 Q Tampa Tom?

14 A Tampa Tom.

15 Q Got it.

16 A Caleb Berry. Jeremy Brown and his girlfriend. And that's all that I'm

17 aware of.

18 Q Okay. Were you -- are you tracking or aware --

19 A And Jason Dolan.

20 Q Oh, Jason Dolan as well?

21 Were you tracking or aware of Ranger Doug possibly having like a falling out with

22 Mr. Rhodes after January 6th?

23 A Yes, I believe that they wanted to separate from the national -- OK National.

24 They wanted to totally distance themself and saying that we're not on the same page as

25 Stewart Rhodes.
 83

1 Q Do you know why that was?

2 A I do not. I do not.

3 Q So just to be clear, I think I'm tracking it, but you were not in D.C. for any

4 type of security detail. You were there as a rally attendee?

5 A Right. Correct.

6 Q And we'll get into how you traveled up in a little bit.

7 There's a term I've seen in the Signal chats where individuals will say January 6th

8 or Wednesday is full on battle rattle. What does battle rattle mean?

9 A Plate carrier and plates, like, you know, law enforcement would be called a

10 bulletproof vest, military, plate carrier and vest.

11 Q Okay. So like the vests kind of is what made it the battle rattle?

12 A Uh-huh.

13 Q Is that a term used frequently?

14 A No. I heard -- I know they were -- Caleb Berry, I think he borrowed some

15 from somebody and he was kind of, I don't know, excited, or maybe Kelly was kind of like

16 making fun of him for being excited. I don't know. That was the first time I heard it

17 used.

18 Q Okay. Tell us how you, I guess, when you traveled to D.C. and when you

19 left, where you left from, where did you stay. Just walk us through that.

20 A Okay. Let's see. Okay. On December -- December 4th, my husband and

21 I, we loaded up my Tahoe and drove from Little Rock, Arkansas, to Bristol, Virginia, and

22 stayed the night at a hotel. And then the following day --

23 Mr. Rickman. December? January.

24 Ms. Propes. Yeah, I'm sorry. January. Yes, January 4th, '21, we stayed the

25 night in Bristol, Virginia. The next day we drove into D.C. We arrived around 4 o'clock
 84

1 on the 5th, and we stayed at the Hilton Garden Inn.

2 Q The Hilton Garden Inn, is that the one on the Virginia side?

3 A No. In D.C., the Capitol View.

4 Q Capitol View one? Okay. How did you-all pick that hotel? Were there

5 other Oath Keepers staying there, or did you just kind of pick it on your own?

6 A No. Kelly Meggs -- well, there was just talk about where, you know, people

7 are going to stay, and he had suggested the Hilton Garden Inn.

8 Q Okay. Capitol View?

9 A Yeah.

10 Q So can you just tell us who you recall, other Oath Keepers that were staying

11 there?

12 A Kelly and Connie, Joe Hackett, Kenneth Harrelson, Caleb Barry. And I'm not

13 sure if Tom stayed there or not. I never met Tom.

14 Q Okay.

15 A But that's all that I know of.

16 Q And was -- I'm not -- was this hotel close to the Capitol or close to the White

17 House that you remember?

18 A It really was not. I was thinking that, oh -- and that's the thing. That's

19 why -- I was just going to get up that morning, take my time, walk down to the Ellipse or,

20 you know, to the area. And then when I got there and realized: Oh, my gosh, that's

21 miles away, I'm not going to be able to -- you know, I need to go with the group. You

22 know, I didn't want to be wandering around D.C. by myself.

23 But, no, it was not very close. It was I guess a mile or two away.

24 Q Did you-all have to walk then the next day? I'm just trying to understand

25 how far it was. Did you have to walk to the Ellipse or did you catch a Lyft? Or how did
 85

1 that work?

2 A We had a Lyft or Uber on the morning of the 6th.

3 Q Okay.

4 A Kelly arranged that. There was two Ubers or Lyfts that came over and

5 picked us up and drove us over there. We met in the lobby around 5:30 a.m.

6 Q Got it. And you didn't go to -- just to make sure I'm checking the January

7 5th box --you didn't go to any rallies on January 5th?

8 A Nothing, no.

9 Q You didn't go out to, like, Black Lives Matter Plaza the night of --

10 A No.

11 Q -- January 5th or anything like that?

12 A No, we pulled into D.C. And I swear it took a couple of hours to find a place

13 to park because you couldn't -- there was -- at that hotel, parking is either on the street or

14 in a parking deck, like, down the block or whatever. So we drove around forever trying

15 to find a place to park. We brought our stuff in.

16 When we -- when my husband and I walked in and checked in, we saw -- the other

17 guys that were staying at the hotel, we saw them sitting in the lobby. We just said hi.

18 introduced my husband to a few of them. And then we went up to our room.

19 And then I think the only time we left our room was to -- we walked down around

20 the corner to get something to eat at the closest little deli or whatever.

21 Q That makes sense.

22 What was the mood of the folks you saw in the lobby, I guess, when you arrived or

23 in general? What was, I guess, the overall mood?

24 A Just kind of -- I don't know. I know everybody was tired. I mean, they'd

25 been -- you know, they got up really early to get there on the 5th. And they were just all
 86

1 tired and just kind of down to business, like, you know, saying, hey,

2 we'll -- everybody -- well, originally that night there was supposed to be a meeting.

3 Okay. So, no, no, no. Let me go back.

4 On the 5th, I did actually go back out of my room but stayed in the hotel. There

5 was like an informal meeting in the lobby. Everybody just come down around 10 and

6 we're going to discuss how -- where to meet in the morning.

7 So that's how I actually knew where to meet and what time. We met down

8 there maybe 10, 15 minutes. And, you know, my husband stayed in the room. I just

9 walked downstairs. I think they sit outside, smoked a cigarette. We talked about the

10 morning, and that was it. Everybody went to bed.

11 Q So your husband didn't go. Did he go with you the next morning?

12 A No. Absolutely not. He --

13 Q Okay.

14 A He was working virtually.

15 Q Right.

16 A He stayed in the hotel room. At first he said: Hey, I'll walk you down if

17 there you want to.

18 So in my mind I pictured that he thought he could just walk me down there and

19 walk back. I was, like: No, it's an all-day thing. You can't just walk me down there.

20 And he said: Okay. Well, as long as you're going to stay with the group, that's

21 fine.

22 But he did not leave the room. He stayed and worked.

23 Q And did you know of any Oath Keepers, I guess, bringing gear or battle rattle

24 or weapons into the Hilton Garden Inn in the Capitol View?

25 A No.
 87

1 Q Okay.

2 A I mean, they might have had their own personal -- their clothes. But no

3 weapons or anything like that.

4 Q Got you.

5 A But I'm sure they had their -- well, I say I'm sure. The morning of -- I know

6 Kenny -- Kenneth Harrelson, he didn't even wear any gear. And he's the big gear guy.

7 He's the big military. He didn't even wear anything, and Caleb didn't either. After he

8 brought all that stuff, they did not even wear them.

9 Q Got it. So I saw on the chat -- and there's no need to pull up the

10 exhibit -- but there was like mention of helmets and plates and plate carriers. You didn't

11 see any of that in the hotel you were staying in?

12 A No. Again, the morning -- maybe -- I could maybe picture. Okay.

13 No, when I saw Kelly and Connie Meggs, for sure they had all their equipment on.

14 I do remember that. So they had equipment, but I never saw a weapon.

15 Q Okay.

16 A But I do know they were dressed in their gear when we left that morning.

17 do remember that.

18 Q I also saw in the chat that you provided about radios.

19 A Uh-huh.

20 Q Tell us about the radios that were used, why they were used, how they were

21 used.

22 A They were not used to my knowledge. Everybody already knew that the

23 lines would be jammed when we got there. I don't think anybody could get on a radio.

24 I never -- I didn't see anybody using a radio. The only communication I saw was by text

25 or telephone. But I did not see anybody -- they might have had them on them, but I did
 88

1 not see anybody use one and nobody told us: Hey, let's get on this channel or that.

2 Nobody -- there was no talk of that in any of my discussions.

3 Q Do you recall any meetings January 5th about getting radios on the same

4 channel or anything like that, preparing for this?

5 A No. All I know is people were saying: You-all are got going to be

6 able -- nobody's going to be able to get on radios out there.

7 But, no, there was -- I never witnessed any discussion on how to communicate

8 with radios out there.

9 Q There was also -- and we don't have to pull it up. But just for your

10 reference, if you want to go to it in the D.C. OP Signal chat you provided, on page 27,

11 there's a reference to burner phones.

12 A Uh-huh.

13 Q Do you understand -- was it your understanding that anyone was using

14 burner phones or Deplorable 1 using a burner phone?

15 A Yeah. And the reason for the burner phone was mainly -- the primary

16 reason for the burner phones was to do research.

17 Again, I talked to you in the beginning about doxxing. Everybody suggested

18 using a burner phone or using like an old computer with none of your personal

19 information on it, because if you're in here, like, researching antifa, and they know, they

20 find you, they will go back. They'll go through all your stuff. They'll, you know, put you

21 on blast for everything you've ever done your whole life.

22 And so people will say: Hey, just use a phone that's separate from all your

23 personal information, your banks, your credit cards, your social media. Just have a just

24 plain phone. And that's what that was for.

25 Q Got it. Okay.

 89

1 A To protect yourself.

2 Q Got it. Got it. Got it. Okay.

3 And then, I know this is all over the indictment, it's even mentioned in some of the

4 other Signal chats that we reviewed, the QRFs, the Quick Reaction Force in the hotels in

5 Virginia. Can you tell us what your awareness about the QRF was leading into

6 January 6th?

7 A I just knew that's where all the -- you know, somebody was going stay with

8 the weapons. And, if needed, whoever's staying with them, they could just gather

9 everything and bring it in, if needed.

10 Q Do you know what hotels that these were -- were you tracking the Hilton

11 Garden Inn in Vienna or the Comfort Inn in Ballston as possible places?

12 A I didn't know till after the fact the names of those hotels.

13 Q Okay. And you don't recall anyone that was staying at those hotels with

14 the QRFs?

15 A No. Just after the fact.

16 Q Okay. And you mentioned a little bit like the purpose of the QRF. I guess,

17 give me an example, if you can think of one, from the time of when, I guess, bringing

18 these weapons in would be necessary or helpful.

19 A If the Insurrection Act was invoked and the President calls on the militia.

20 Q Got it. Okay. Got it.

21 Do you remember the kinds of firearms or -- that were stored in this QRF or kept

22 in the QRF?

23 A I never saw any, and I never heard of anybody describing what weapons they

24 had.

25 Q You mentioned earlier, too, that -- I think -- and I don't want to misphrase
 90

1 you. I think you said like some of this ammunition might have been a little crazy, I think

2 is what you were saying. Why were you saying that, the ammunition for January 6th

3 may be a little crazy?

4 A Just, again, I think -- I think even from this chat, maybe it's this chat where

5 Kelly's saying that, you know, nobody ever brought too much, you know.

6 Q Yes.

7 A So I think people were just being excessive, just, you know, maybe even

8 showing off. I don't know. Just people bringing all this stuff. But, again, I think even

9 Kelly Meggs mentioned he had thousands, a thousand rounds or something like that

10 just --

11 Q Got you.

12 A Yeah. Because he'd rather have too much than not enough.

13 Q Right. And we saw those mentions in those Signal chats that you provided.

14 In the recent indictment of Mr. Rhodes, it mentions North Carolina Oath Keepers

15 also being at the QRF hotel. Do you know any North Carolina Oath Keepers that would

16 have been there or that might have been there?

17 A All I can think of is the Ranger Doug. That's all I can -- that's the only name

18 that pops in my head with North Carolina Oath Keepers.

19 Q Okay. But you weren't tracking that, specifically QRF, just with the North

20 Carolina Oath Keepers?

21 A Correct. Yes, I was not.

22 Q Do you know where Mr. Rhodes stayed for January 6th?

23 A It was not at our hotel. No, I do not know.

24 Q Okay.

25 A And, again, I never saw him at all while I was in D.C.

 91

1 Q And you somewhat mentioned this. But your hotel was not paid for by the

2 organization or anything like that?

3 A Huh-uh. Huh-uh. No, it was not.

4 Q No worries. I was about to go into courtroom mode and be like: May I

5 get a response from the witness?

6 And from your understanding, Mr. Meggs, their room was not paid for either?

7 A No.

8 Q Okay.

9 A Now, I do know when he was in D.C. in November that his -- the room was

10 paid for by Stewart. I'm not sure how that -- he was totally shocked. He was like:

11 Oh, my gosh, you know, like you got see this room. It's beautiful. And it was this big,

12 fancy, expensive room. And I think it was [inaudible] just had an extra room and let

13 Kelly stay in it, but that was the first time I'd ever heard of that happening.

14 Q Got it.

15 A Uh-huh.

16 Q And we did see a reference in this chat -- and this might be what you were

17 referencing -- Kelly Meggs saying -- providing updates on the ammo situation, just in case

18 SHTF, which I take to mean shit hits the fan.

19 A Yes.

20 Q What shit could hit the fan? Is this like the Insurrection Act being invoked

21 or shit hitting the fan with antifa or BLM? Like, I guess, I'm trying to understand how

22 shit could hit the fan.

23 A I'm thinking --

24 Q Your understanding, by the way, your understanding.

25 A Right. I guess my understanding is, again, the Insurrection Act, if the

 92

1 militia. Because I know -- I don't know. I guess I'm a little bit confused on what was

2 going on in their minds, because the main security type stuff was against, you know, the

3 people that were anti-rally there. You know, the protesters that didn't like us being

4 there in support of the President. That was my main understanding.

5 Like one night they were talking about going out at night because, you know,

6 that's when antifa might be lurking around or whatever. So I know that they were really

7 wanting to be on top of that, you know, making sure that nothing happened with that.

8 But --

9 Q So it could have been maybe almost like a mixed bag of Insurrection Act and

10 also protecting at night against antifa?

11 A Exactly, yes.

12 Q Okay. I think we've been going for a little bit. Let's do like a 10-minute

13 break if that works for you, and then we'll hit the stretch run. We're almost there.

14 So when we come back, just to give you and Mr. Rickman, because I understand

15 he'll probably want to know where we're heading as well, there's one more exhibit of a

16 list of folks that I want to go through and just see if you know these individuals.

17 A Okay.

18 Q And then we'll hit January 6th and go from there.

19 So let's come back on the record at 12:45 p.m. eastern time.

20 [Recess.]

21 All right.

22 Mr. Rickman. Ready whenever you are.

23 Sounds good. So we'll go back on the record at 12:45 p.m.

24 eastern time.

25 So, - can you please pull up exhibit 7?

 93

1 And, again, this is like just a list of people. You didn't produce this, Ms. Propes.

2 This is something we have on file. And I just want to get a better idea who these folks

3 are.

4 This is exhibit 7. Perfect.

5 So this is an email from Stephen Brown, which we asked you about earlier. You

6 don't know him. He said he is emailing Mr. Ali Alexander and Nathan Martin from the

7 Stop the Steal organization on January 4th, and it's a list of personal security details from

8 Mr. Kelly.

9 Slow down. Slow down. Go back up.

10 From Mr. Kelly Meggs. And it says, "Gator-Kelly Meggs is the lead on this team.

11 His phone is" -- you see it right there.

12 So can we scroll down?

13 Is the Kelly Meggs' email that you remember?

14 Ms. Propes. Yes.

15 Okay.

16 So let's scroll down now to the l i s t , _ All right. Perfect.

17 BY

18 Q So this is for January 6th. OK gatorl it has as Kelly Meggs, Connie Meggs.

19 Americanpatriot242, Caleb Barry. Is that right? That's what you said earlier?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Who's David Owensby? Do you know him?

22 A I've never heard of David.

23 Q Okay. What about Richard Dockery?

24 A I've never heard of him.

25 Q Ken Bittner? Gator Kane?

 94

1 A It's some old dude. I've never met him, but I just know he was really old.

2 Q Do you know what part of Florida he lived in?

3 A I'm thinking he was somewhere close to where Kenneth Harrelson lived, the

4 Titusville direction over there.

5 Q Okay.

6 A Because I believe that they were in the same little subsection group.

7 Q Got it. Okay. Robert Lemar, Kraut.

8 A Never met him or I don't know who -- I know he was -- I know he went there

9 and I know he was in this chat, but I didn't know him before this.

10 Q Got you. Okay.

11 Terry Cummings?

12 A I do not know Terry Cummings.

13 Q What about Aaron Stone?

14 A He's from Tampa.

15 Q Okay. From Tampa.

16 Do you recall the call sign Cat Daddy?

17 A Yes.

18 Q Do you know what Mr. Stone did for a living? Is he a teacher?

19 A I don't -- no, I don't believe.

20 Q Okay. Do you know what he did for a living?

21 A I don't.

22 Q Okay. But in the Tampa area?

23 A Yes. And he's a little bit older than me. He might be retired already.

24 Q Okay. Scott Thompson or deep sea?

25 We can keep scrolling down, -

 95

1 Ms. Propes. I do not know him, but I know he was in the chat?

2 BY

3 Q Got it. Dr s fl ok, or Steven Taylor?

4 A I do not know him.

5 Q Of course we see you, Ms. Alondra Propes, Fl Sunchaser. So Fl Sunchaser

6 was your call sign?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Okay. Bruce Holden, looks like from South Carolina.

9 A Do not know him.

10 Q And then we see Frank Marchisella, padimasterdiver, again from South

11 Carolina?

12 A I did not know any of them.

13 Okay. Can you scroll down a little more,_?

14 BY

15 Q David Kirk, did you know him, from South Carolina?

16 A Oh, no.

17 Q Okay. What about Ben Parker?

18 A No.

19 Q Sandra Parker?

20 A I met them on January 6th, the Parkers.

21 Q Okay. So you met them with Jessica Watkins, I'm assuming?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And Donovan Crowl as well?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And then William Isaacs and Shelby Cobra. So Shelby Cobra was William
 96

1 Isaacs' aunt? Is that what you said? You think?

2 A I believe. I believe.

3 Q But you don't remember Shelby Cobra's name?

4 A No. I met William Isaacs at the event. He sat next to me. Again, I

5 don't -- I couldn't even tell you what Shelby, what the girl looked like.

6 Q Okay. And --

7 A But I believe that is his aunt.

8 Q Okay. Tampa Tom we've established is Tom Burgess.

9 David Kirk, did I say that name already? I said it, right, David Kirk right here?

10 Okay.

11 Don Siekerman (ph). Do you know a Don Siekerman?

12 A No.

13 Q What about a William Cook?

14 A No.

15 You can take the exhibit down, -

16 BY

17 Q And last name will be Rob Weaver.

18 A No.

19 Q Okay. Thank you.

20 A You're welcome.

21 Q All right. So we finally made it to January 6th.

22 Can you walk us through your morning? You said you came down around 5:30

23 a.m. You met folks in the lobby. Sounds like you Lyfted or took an Uber to the Ellipse

24 with Kelly Meggs and Connie Meggs.

25 But just walk us through the point where you're about to leave the Ellipse, if that
 97

1 makes sense.

2 A Okay. So it was before the speeches were over. And, again, the

3 main purpose of everybody being there was to safely give the VIP speakers and their

4 guests and their families --

5 Q Let's backtrack. Sorry. Sorry.

6 What I meant, what time did you get to the Ellipse, what happened when you got

7 to the Ellipse, stuff like that.

8 A Oh, okay. Yeah, so we met in the lobby at 5:30 and we got a ride over to

9 the Ellipse. We entered the VIP, that area, at 9 o'clock. So we were over there. We

10 just stood around for hours, waiting to be let in.

11 When we first walked over there, you know, people had their gear on and stuff,

12 you know, the others. And Secret Service said: You are not coming in with that stuff

13 on. Take it off. So everybody took their stuff off and --

14 Q Did you witness this happening? Was this with Ms. Watkins and Mr. Meggs

15 maybe?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay. So just -- I'm sorry. I know I told to you tell me everything, and

18 now I'm cutting you off. So I apologize for that. But how did you go on the VIP list?

19 A We got up there and Whipit, Jeffrey Morelock, he gave us passes.

20 Q Okay. So he came over to the gate where you were, I'm assuming, like a

21 gate, and gave you the pass? Or was it the night before? Like when did he give that

22 you pass?

23 A It that was morning. Once we got out to the Ellipse area, we all were just

24 standing out with the general crowd. And then Jeff Morelock came up to us and said:

25 Here, everybody. You-all are coming into the VIP area.

 98

1 Q Do you know where Mr. Morelock got the passes from?

2 A No. I know he worked -- he worked into the evening on January 5th. And

3 then he was there early with the VIP people that morning before any of us were out

4 there. So he was doing something different than the rest of the group that I was with.

5 Q Understandable. So he gave you and it sounds like the Meggs and Ms.

6 Watkins and the group that you were with the VIP passes. And then you were able to

7 skip the line. Is that accurate?

8 A Yes. So he gave us VIP passes, and everybody was let in. And there was

9 a -- we were on the very back row of chairs. There were some chairs set out, and we

10 were at the very back row.

11 Q And -- but you say -- you were starting to explain the Secret Service made

12 Ms. Watkins and Meggs and some of the other folks take their gear off?

13 A Yes. When we walked up there and we were finally about to go in, they

14 said: You can't go in with all that stuff. And then Kelly -- I believe it was either Kelly or

15 Jeremy or somebody was saying: Well, you know, we had permission. And they said:

16 No, you don't. Take the stuff off.

17 And so everybody took their -- they took their stuff off and gave it to I don't

18 remember who it was. They gave it to one person, or they had somebody decide to stay

19 outside and watch the gear. So there was just a pile of gear somewhere, and somebody

20 was going to stay with it.

21 Q Who did -- and if you recall, who did -- why did Kelly or Jeremy believe they

22 had permission to take the gear in? Do you know who told them that?

23 A I don't -- I do not know. But they -- but Kelly believed that, I mean, that we

24 would -- that the people doing security would actually be standing by stages. And I

25 don't know why somebody led them to believe that, but that did not happen.
 99

1 Q And you might have already touched this, but what kind of gear did they

2 have to leave outside the Ellipse?

3 A Bulletproof vests and helmets, that kind of stuff.

4 Q We've heard just in the course of the investigation that it might have been

5 like a couple hundred thousand dollars' worth of gear they left outside. Is that

6 accurate?

7 A I doubt it.

8 Q Okay.

9 A No, there was -- maybe in this group maybe there were 15 people. And, I

10 mean, there was no weapons. I mean, that's where the money would be. There was

11 no weapons. There was vests. My purse, I left my purse. I had this little bitty purse

12 and I had to leave that out and left it in the pile of gear. And just maybe somebody

13 had -- anything, any little bags or stuff, we just left all out there.

14 Q Right.

15 A But I doubt it was that kind of value because, like I said, it was just people's

16 vests and helmets.

17 Q And there were about 15 people with you, including yourself, that walked

18 over or Ube red over together?

19 A No, no, not that Ubered over. That met up and that sat in that back row.

20 Yeah.

21 Q Got it.

22 A The only ones that Ube red over together were the ones from the Hilton

23 Garden Inn Capitol View.

24 Q Got it. Was the plan to meet up before going into the Ellipse the whole

25 time, like, the 15 people?

 100

1 A I really don't know. All I knew -- the only plan I knew was that I was going

2 to go over with the group at my hotel. I didn't know what everybody else was doing.

3 Because people -- there were people staying at different hotels and, like, Jeremy Brown

4 stayed at a RV park. So people were kind of scattered around.

5 Q And so you get in around 9. You said 9 a.m.?

6 A Yeah, when we finally were able to go into the area, it was around 9.

7 Q And what happens there? So tell us about the event at the Ellipse. How

8 was the event? What was the mood? Did you stay for President Trump's speech?

9 Just walk us through that.

10 A It was -- it was really full of energy. I mean, people were freezing.

11 Normally there is nothing that would make me go stand out in the cold, but I was -- you

12 know, we were bundled up. It would take something really special to get me out there

13 so. And most people were just freezing. It was so cold.

14 People were singing. People were chanting. But it was mostly upbeat, you

15 know, and people, you know, are singing: Stop the steal. That's mainly what I

16 remember.

17 Q Do you recall --

18 A 1sat all the way through President Trump, not to the end because towards

19 the end is when everybody said: Okay, we got to go get our gear and head down to the

20 end.

21 Q So do you recall approximately when in the speech you left? Was it near

22 the end or --

23 A I guess -- I'm thinking close to noon or 1 maybe is when we left. And I'm

24 guessing at that time because I don't know specific time. But I know it was before

25 President Trump was finished, and it was before everybody walked up to the Capitol.
 101

1 Q That's perfect.

2 Where were you sitting in comparison to Whipit, or Mr. Morelock? Was he on

3 the same row with you?

4 A I think he was more walking around. I don't know that he had a seat with

5 us.

6 Q Was anyone else --

7 A He was actually -- no, he was actually -- I don't know. It was mainly him

8 that was -- that was doing all the coordination. Like he had the passes, and he told us

9 where to sit.

10 I don't remember seeing anybody else that was helping him do that. But he's the

11 only one that really was communicating with Ali Alexander's group or whatever.

12 Q Got it. So like Ms. Watkins, for example, Mr. Meggs, were they just all in

13 the row with you?

14 A Yes.

15 Q You didn't see them coordinating with the Secret Service or any other

16 security function inside the Ellipse?

17 A No.

18 Q Would you describe them as just spectators inside the Ellipse?

19 A Yes. I think at one point somebody was passing out some fliers or maybe

20 signs or something, and they helped pass those out. At least Kelly -- Kelly and Kenneth

21 did.

22 But, yes, they were not allowed up by the stage or anything. We were just

23 standing in the back -- or sitting in the back.

24 Q Were they upset they weren't allowed by the stage?

25 A Not -- no. I didn't see anybody be upset. They just thought: Oh, well.
 102

1 But no.

2 Q So you leave during President Trump's speech. You said you left because

3 Mr. Meggs and other folks said: We had to go get our gear. I guess what

4 was the -- where were they saying they were going? Where were you going to next?

5 A To walk down to the Capitol. Everybody's going to go put their clothes

6 back on, because as long as they weren't in that VIP area, they could wear their stuff. So

7 they were going to go out to wherever their stuff was, put it back on. And then we were

8 supposed to --you know, everybody was going to walk down to the Capitol.

9 Q And what was going to happen at the Capitol? Like what was supposed to

10 take place there?

11 A There was supposed to be all kinds of speeches set up or there was -- yeah,

12 there was supposed to be more speeches at the Capitol.

13 Q Did you-all end up escorting any Congressmen or anything down to the

14 Capitol?

15 A No. The only person that was -- so what had happened, so while they were

16 out getting their gear, a lot of the people, the VIPs, it led outto. And so everybody just

17 started, all, it was chaotic. Everybody just started walking towards the Capitol.

18 The only person that was left for me to be with was Jeffrey Morelock. We kind

19 of like held on to each other because, like I said, it was almost like a stampede, everybody

20 just heading out.

21 And then one of the VIP speakers, his mom grabbed onto my arm and said, you

22 know: Can you help me? I'm with this group. Can you-all help me find my group?

23 And so we got her. And then from there forward, me and Jeffrey Morelock took

24 off walking her down. And we -- we were -- it was just us three for a long time until we

25 finally met up with the others when we were almost at the Capitol.
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1 Q So thank you. That helps me kind of visualize what's going on as you're

2 walking to the -- did you-all stop anywhere? Do you remember the route you walked

3 down, anything like that?

4 A I don't remember the route. It was just the one that everybody else was

5 taking.

6 Q Following everybody else? Okay.

7 A Yeah. Well, we pulled over -- so, she was -- her son was a 16-year-old guy.

8 And he was going to be speaking at the Capitol. And she kept trying to get a hold of him.

9 She couldn't make contact. We pulled over to the side, and we were just like standing in

10 front of some building while she was trying to call the people she was with. She couldn't

11 get ahold of anybody. And then we couldn't get a hold of the other Oath Keepers

12 because, again, you couldn't really pick up phone calls and stuff.

13 And so we just kind of stood there for a while, trying to see if we could find

14 anybody. And then that's finally when the other Oath Keepers met up with us.

15 Q Was the 16-year-old speaker, was it C.J. Pearson? Was it a Black guy?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Okay. Got it.

18 A Yeah.

19 Q So you followed with C.J. Pearson's mother. Got it.

20 A Yes. And she has, like, MS or something. And so by the time we got down

21 to the Capitol, she was crying. She was in bad pain. And so we stopped with her

22 several times just to let her rest. And she was pretty worried. She was, like: I know

23 my son. She said: I -- you know, because people were walking by, saying: Oh,

24 they're going into the Capitol. And she said: I know my son's going in there. So --

25 Q She said, "My son --1 know my son's not going in there"?
 104

1 A No. She said: I know he is.

2 Q Oh.

3 A She said: I got to find my son. She said: I know he's going to go in

4 there.

5 Q Okay. I guess that's a perfect kind of segue.

6 When did you first become aware that people were going into the Capitol, or

7 trying to?

8 A Just when we were walking along the path. A lot of people that we were

9 walking by were saying people are going into the Capitol. And we were like: Oh, my

10 gosh. And so we just -- yeah, just word of mouth, people saying it while they were

11 walking that way.

12 Q And you were with -- you were only with C.J. Pearson's mom and Whip it at

13 this point?

14 A Yes.

15 Q What was your reaction and what was Whipit's reaction to people going into

16 the Capitol? Like what were you thinking?

17 A My mind was just kind of blown. I didn't really know what to think,

18 honestly.

19 Q Were you surprised?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Why were you surprised?

22 A Because all I knew is that, to my knowledge, people were just going down

23 there to listen to speeches. And I did not know -- I mean, I had never heard of anybody

24 saying that they were going to go into the Capitol.

25 Q Did you think -- and did you hear, I guess -- that President Trump would be
 105

1 speaking at the Capitol?

2 A I believe so.

3 Q You believe. Okay. Was it, I guess, just going back, was it -- and just what

4 you recollect -- was it kind of thought around the crowd that President Trump might show

5 up at the Capitol later that afternoon?

6 A Yeah, like just how you said it, like it was thought maybe he might show up.

7 But it was never -- I never saw a plan of: Okay, now we're going to go see -- leave

8 Trump's speech at the Ellipse and then go hear him speak at the Capitol. That was never

9 in my mind but --

10 Q Kind of rumored around the crowd?

11 A Yeah. Or maybe even after the fact.

12 Q Got you. No, it's all helpful. And I understand you're trying to remember

13 back now over a year ago. So I definitely --

14 A And this whole thing has been very traumatic. I mean, my brain is like

15 fried. This has been a very traumatic thing.

16 Q I understand. I understand. I thank you again for talking to us about it.

17 A Can I say one other thing for the record?

18 Q Please.

19 A I'm not a White supremacist. I'm a Hispanic female, furthest from it. My

20 group, none of my friends were either.

21 Q Understandable. Understood. I understand.

22 All the questions I'm asking, I'm just trying to understand what the mood was like.

23 None of us were there. So we're just trying to understand what the mood was like and

24 understand from folks like you that were there, right, what did you see, what did you

25 hear. And that way we can have an accurate report, honestly.

 106

1 So when did you -- I guess did you at any point reconnect with the rest of the Oath

2 Keeper group that you were with?

3 A Yes. So we were pretty close to the Capitol when we finally came back in

4 contact with everybody, and then we all finished walking to the Capitol together.

5 Q And you said earlier that Whipit, Mr. Morelock, eventually left. When did

6 he leave? Was it when you got to the Capitol? Before?

7 A Okay. So as we approached the Capitol, we all walk up there. And this is

8 one of the times we were taking a break for Jeffrey [sic] Pearson's mom. We were just

9 kind of all standing there.

10 And then, just like that, Kelly Meggs and the rest of the group said, you know:

11 People are going in the Capitol. We need to go help. Okay? And we're still standing

12 there with Mrs. Pearson.

13 And Jeremy Brown says -- said: No, we need to complete our mission. The

14 mission was to be security for the VIP speakers and their families. And so Jeremy,

15 Whipit, and myself, we decided to stay back and make sure that Mrs. Pearson either

16 made it to her group or back to her hotel safely.

17 So at that point they -- you know, the group of them took off, started continuing

18 walking towards the Capitol. We all stood there for a few minutes. We might have

19 walked up a little bit further, and then we stood there. And then Jeffrey Morelock,

20 Whipit, said: Do you want to go with me to get her back to her hotel or are you going to

21 stay here?

22 And so I just kind of thought: Well. So I didn't come over with -- he was not in

23 our group that came over that morning.

24 Q Right.

25 A And the plan was we all came together, we all needed to leave together.
 107

1 And so I thought: Well, no, I'll just wait here. I was going to wait there with Jeremy,

2 and we were just going to wait for them to come back from doing whatever they were

3 doing.

4 And so that's when he took off walking to the hotel. And then Jeremy and I just

5 walked up the sidewalk and to see what all was going on.

6 Q Got you. Did it appear to you like Mr. Morelock was just trying to get out

7 of the situation, or was he just sincerely trying to walk back Ms. Pearson?

8 A He was just doing what we were supposed to be doing. And that's why.

9 And Jeremy was very upset because he said, you know: What are they doing, you know,

10 we have no business being up there, or whatever. And he's really, you know: This is

11 our mission. And that's what he kept saying.

12 And, honestly, I mean, I thought we should all stick together. I mean, I'm glad

13 now, looking back, that I didn't go with them. But I just thought it was -- I don't know.

14 It was just an awkward situation kind of.

15 Q No, I understand.

16 Can you describe Jeremy Brown for us? We've heard -- is he more maybe a little

17 tempered? Is that fair to say?

18 A No. I wouldn't say he has a temper. I'd say that he's radical, and he's got

19 some kind of really radical thinking.

20 Q Radical how?

21 A Just on the -- like the -- the imminent war. And he talked about war a lot.

22 And he used to be a QAnon follower but he's not anymore. He was just kind of like

23 Stewart Rhodes and their thinking.

24 Q Was he a veteran?

25 A Yes.
 108

1 Q Do you remember what branch he was a -- I might have already asked you

2 this -- do you remember what branch he was a veteran for?

3 A Army, Green Beret, Special Forces, 20 years.

4 Q Got it. Okay.

5 So all right. Whipit and Ms. Pearson leave. You-all walk up to the Capitol now.

6 What happens then?

 109

2 [1:09 p.m.]

3 Ms. Propes. So we start walking up. And so Jeremy, he was really decked out

4 in all his gear. I mean, he looked -- anyway, like I say, he had the helmet and the light on

5 the top and, you know, all these bags of stuff and his -- you know, you've seen pictures.

6 The medical shears and zip top. I mean, he just had every piece of equipment that he's

7 ever owned I think he had on him that day.

8 And he had a lot of veterans coming up or just a lot of people in general

9 coming -- stopping and talking to him about, you know: Thank you for your service.

10 Thank you for being here.

11 And he talks a lot, so he just was kind of having little -- he was -- I don't know.

12 People kind of flocked around him a little bit and was listening to him talk, and he

13 was -- he was just talking about all kinds of stuff.

14 But, for the most part, we were just kind of walking around the edge. And I tried

15 to call Kelly Meggs a few times: Where are you? Where are you? You know, we

16 need to meet you.

17 But I could never get through. He probably has several missed calls from me

18 trying to get a hold of him. I didn't use Signal at all that day. I was just -- my phone.

19 Couldn't reach him. It was hours before we could even reach him.

20 BY

21 Q So I just want to give a little bit of time to orient you. We know from public

22 filings that, at 2:36 p.m. on the east side of the Capitol, that is when Kelly Meggs and

23 what they called Stack One went into the Capitol.

24 Did you see them right before that? Like, when was the last time you saw them

25 before they went into the Stack, into the Capitol?

 110

1 A We were together until 2:30.

2 Q Until 2:30, so 6 minutes before?

3 A Uh-huh.

4 Q Were they getting the battle rattle ready or like what were they doing to

5 prepare?

6 A They were already dressed. They just said: Come on, come on.

7 I don't know. I think -- if I recall, I think Kelly had taken a phone call that said:

8 Come on, let's -- and then he said: Come on, let's go. It kind of all happened so fast,

9 but it was a split second. He said: Come on, let's go.

10 And then Jeremy and Whipit and I kind of looked at each other. We still had this

11 lady here. We weren't going to, you know, all go with her. But it just happened really

12 fast. I did not see them walk into the -- I did not see them -- that Stack go out.

13 Q Where were you -- so I'm assuming you were on the east side of the Capitol.

14 Where were you, though, in relation to the steps at 2:30, right before they go up the

15 steps? Were you just in the crowd? I guess how far were you away from the steps?

16 A We were pretty far away. So the side -- I don't know the east and -- but

17 where we were at -- I guess you said that's where they went up those steps, okay?

18 Yeah. So we --

19 Mr. Rickman. Were you in the grass area?

20 Ms. Propes. Yes.

21 Mr. Rickman. So you were in the grass area?

22 Grass area?

23 Mr. Rickman. To the steps.

24 Ms. Propes. Yes.

25 Mr. Rickman. And that's the last time you saw them, correct?
 111

1 Ms. Propes. Yes. So, like I said, I absolutely did not see them go up those steps.

2 We were, again, just kind of -- just kind of looking around and kind of taking in. You

3 know, there was people everywhere. We were just watching what people were doing,

4 and Jeremy was talking to people.

5 And I -- and, at this point, this was the first -- well, only the second time I'd ever

6 met Jeremy. I didn't really know him very well. So it was kind of weird for me. I was

7 just, you know -- I was sticking with him because he was the only one that -- of my group,

8 and if I didn't have my eyes on him, I'd be lost out there by myself.

9 BY

10 Q Got it. What -- so you said Mr. Meggs, from what you remember, took a

11 call right before 2:30 that you remember?

12 A It's weird, because things run together a little bit.

13 Q Yes, that's understandable.

14 A Because I almost picture him on the phone, but then I know, after the fact,

15 everybody's talking, oh, that he had this 10-minute phone call with -- so I don't know if

16 I'm thinking that from, after the fact, but I almost can remember picturing him on the

17 phone and then saying, let's go.

18 Q And what was he telling everyone to do? Like, what was the "let's go" for?

19 A To my understanding, that -- it's my understanding. I don't know that he

20 even said it. But I thought they were going to go help people, like help do -- help

21 security, like maybe the police. I don't -- I don't know for sure. Like I said, it happened

22 really quickly.

23 Q Do you recall Kelly Meggs saying a statement, something like "this is our

24 opportunity," something like that?

25 A No.
 112

1 Q Okay.

2 A I don't.

3 Q So going in to possibly help -- it was kind of your understanding at the time it

4 was to maybe go help law enforcement. Is that what you --

5 A Uh-huh. Yeah.

6 Q So, if Mr. Meggs was going in to help law enforcement, is it fair to say then

7 that you all were not happy with the protesters pushing into the Capitol? I guess help

8 me understand that, right? Like you're there. You can't really support both, at least in

9 my mind, right, the people pushing in and the people then going to help law

10 enforcement.

11 So help me square that. Or it might just be complicated, I don't know. But just

12 help me understand the dynamic of going in to help law enforcement, but then also not

13 being mad about people pushing law enforcement to get in.

14 A You know, it's a question I really don't know the answer to.

15 Q Okay.

16 A I mean, I was not in there --

17 Q What are your thoughts about that? You know what I'm saying? So like

18 you support law enforcement and you're going in to support them, but yet there's people

19 pushing through law enforcement to get in. I guess it confuses me a bit.

20 A Well, it was kind of like mob mentality. It's just like everybody all of a

21 sudden, all of a sudden. These people probably normally would not be doing this.

22 People -- I mean, just everybody was coming out -- you know, I really don't understand it,

23 but I do know I formed a friendship with Kelly Meggs and Kenny and Joe, and they

24 don't -- if you would know them, they don't -- did not have evil intentions. They were

25 not -- Connie has -- Kelly's wife has law enforcement all throughout her family. There is
 113

1 not -- and everybody Back the Blue and everything.

2 So I don't know why they would go in there and kind of push past law

3 enforcement, thinking that that would be helpful. But I do know like, after we finally

4 saw Kelly and them come out of the Capitol, he said: Oh my gosh. He said: It was so

5 beautiful in there.

6 So it wasn't like: Oh my gosh, we almost found Nancy and -- you know, all that

7 crazy talk. It was -- it was -- stupid to say, but almost like they were sightseeing.

8 mean, I know they weren't. But it was just like: Oh my gosh, this is beautiful, and this

9 is this big experience.

10 And, again, it was like just a mob of people. It wasn't -- I don't know of anybody

11 that had any ill intentions. The only person that I would think that I can say, from my

12 opinion, is that Stewart Rhodes would have.

13 Q Why do you think he had ill intentions?

14 A Not really ill intentions, but I think he was the one that pushed everybody in,

15 got everybody all riled up. And I think, if it wasn't for Stewart Rhodes, I don't think that

16 Kelly would have ever been involved in anything that he shouldn't have been involved in.

17 That's just my opinion.

18 Q No, no. That's all we can ask for is your opinion.

19 Going back to that Signal chat about getting 100 feet away from the Senators, was

20 that maybe part of it, going in to delay the vote or to make Senators feel heard?

21 A Not to my knowledge. I -- I can say under oath or whatever you want me

22 to do, I have never in my life heard of them talking about going in there and physically

23 stopping anybody from anything. Never heard that once.

24 And I might not be the perfect person to talk to because I never heard any of that

25 stuff. Maybe you need to talk to somebody that was more involved in it, but I never
 114

1 ever heard anybody talking about going in to physically stop anything.

2 Q No worries at all. That's all we're asking for is your recollection, just the

3 story straight from your point of view.

4 So then Kelly Meggs and that group goes in, and now it's like the Stack that's been

5 reported on a million times. I get it. What does Jeremy Brown do? When does he

6 leave you? I think he leaves you right, eventually? He does?

7 A No, no. We stayed together the entire time. So, when we finally, finally

8 made contact with Kelly, we were like: Where are you?

9 And he said: We've been -- there's a group of us, and we're waiting around the

10 back, and we've been here trying to find you-all.

11 And we're like: Well, we couldn't find you either.

12 And so Jeremy says: Okay. Come on.

13 And so he -- then we take off walking around towards the back of the Capitol.

14 But to get there -- so, for the most part, we were not even standing on the steps at all.

15 But to get -- I mean, we might have like stepped on one, stepped down, but we were

16 never up by the Capitol. We were always down around the bottom.

17 When we got the phone call, when we finally made contact with Kelly, we took off

18 walking towards the back. And I think we had to walk up stairs and went around the

19 side, the terrace. And that's when we were stopped. We couldn't go any further

20 because there was a police line.

21 [Discussion off the record.]

22 Ms. Propes. Okay, yes, yes. So Jeremy was insistent on talking to the police.

23 He wanted -- he likes to talk and preach to everybody. And he was trying to talk to

24 them. And I was behind him the entire time.

25 BY
 115

1 Q What was he talking to them about, I guess?

2 A Just upholding their oath. He felt like that they needed to uphold their

3 oath and --

4 Q I guess what did uphold -- I guess that's what I was trying to -- I probably

5 didn't say it appropriately.

6 Going in the Capitol, was there a sense amongst the crowd that the Capitol Police

7 and others weren't upholding their oaths they took at that time?

8 A Yeah. I guess people were -- I know people were saying "traitors." And I

9 don't know if they were talking to them, you know, because people were saying: This is

10 our house, you know, we should be allowed in there. And I guess the police keeping

11 them out was, you know, turning their back on -- I don't know. It was kind of just --

12 Q So what -- and I'm going to go back to Jeremy Brown. I don't want to lose

13 that thread. I'm sorry. We'll put a pin there.

14 But what could Capitol Police have done on that day to uphold their oath?

15 A I do not know. I thought they were doing their jobs.

16 Q So, for you -- I understand that. But, for the people that you're around,

17 upholding their oath meant letting people into the Capitol. Is that a fair assessment?

18 A I guess so. It's weird because, like I said, I've been questioned on this

19 before, and I've been asked if maybe if Jeremy was wanting them to move so he could get

20 in. But he never once said -- he was never trying to get into the Capitol.

21 So I don't know if he was just speaking on behalf of the others that wanted in

22 or -- but I don't know. Jeremy talks about the Constitution and the oath, keeping your

23 oath. That's all he talks about. So --

24 Q I'm going to take it one step further, I guess, about maybe the oath talk you

25 might have heard. Was the oath allowing people into the Capitol, or was the oath
 116

1 stopping the certification of the stolen election?

2 A Yeah, there's more to it than just people going in the Capitol. It's probably

3 the step further, you know, the protecting the traitors, I guess, protecting people that are

4 not doing the right thing.

5 Q Were you all mad at Vice President Pence that day?

6 A I think the general feeling was, yes.

7 Q And this was coming directly from what like President Trump had been

8 saying about what Vice President Pence could do that day?

9 A Yes, yes. So, at the speeches, I think people were really talking about that,

10 about that he should do the right thing.

11 Q So I'm sorry; let's go back now to what Mr. Brown was saying to the police.

12 You said upholding their oath. Was there anything else that he was saying that we

13 should know?

14 A Yeah. He was like, you know: Put down your shields. Just, you

15 know -- you know, you're one of us. You're -- you know, you -- you swore an oath to

16 protect the Constitution.

17 And he just kind of wanted them to put down their shields, you know, because the

18 police were, you know, having to push people back and throw tear gas and all this kind of

19 stuff.

20 And he was just like, you know: Just stop. Just -- I really don't know what he

21 thought he could accomplish by that and if he really thought that they would, you know,

22 stop being police all of a sudden because he told them to. I don't really know exactly

23 what he was thinking.

24 Q But he was almost asking them to give up, right, like just give it up, almost?

25 A Yeah, yeah.
 117

1 Q You kind of described going on the terrace now. Did you eventually see like

2 a meeting with Stewart Rhodes and Whip and anybody else on the --

3 A I never saw that meeting. I never saw Stewart Rhodes that day. That

4 meeting, that meet-up was like around the other side. We were never on that side.

5 And by the time we did find Kelly and the rest of our group, it was just the group that we

6 all walked back to the hotel together.

7 Q What time did you actually see Kelly and them, approximately?

8 A Let's see. It was close to 5 o'clock.

9 Q Okay.

10 A Yeah. It was like right around 5 o'clock. So, when we first saw

11 Kelly -- yeah, it was almost like right at 5 o'clock. When he finally came out -- he found

12 us. So we had been pushed down off the terrace. And, again, I was not physically

13 touched by anybody. I was standing pretty far behind Jeremy Brown. And several

14 times I even yelled: Come on, Jeremy, come on.

15 But he insisted on staying there and, you know, talking.

16 And then we kind of got -- the police line pushed everybody back and down the

17 stairs. And then Jeremy comes back to the front of the line. You know, everybody's

18 down the stairs. But he comes back to the front of the line and he and several other

19 people are still talking to the police.

20 And while he's -- while we're up there -- and at this time, I was sitting on the little

21 ledge because he had helped a lady who had been -- who was on the ground and

22 was -- we thought she might get trampled because she had been sprayed and she

23 couldn't see and she was laying on the ground. So he had helped her up and brought

24 her down.

25 And I was sitting next to her on the little ledge while he was standing up there
 118

1 talking to the police. And then that's when Kelly Meggs pulled that or -- and walked up.

2 And he was like: Come on, man, let's go.

3 And then Jeremy talked a few more minutes, and then we all walked over to the

4 rest of the group. But it was smaller. It was not the group with Stewart and all those

5 other people. It was just literally the people who were at our same hotel.

6 Q Got it. What was Mr. Meggs' response or what did he appear to feel after

7 getting out of the Capitol?

8 A Well, the only thing I heard him say, you know: Oh, it was so beautiful in

9 there.

10 And he was kind of like excited or thought it was really neat, or he literally said:

11 It was so beautiful in there.

12 And then he was kind of irritated. He was ready to go, because they had -- they

13 had been trying to -- we had been trying to find each other for hours. And he was just

14 kind of irritated at Jeremy, that Jeremy was still sitting there talking. He was like:

15 Come on, let's go.

16 And then we finally go over there. And we walked back to the hotel. And I'm

17 kind of walking next to Caleb and Connie. And Jeremy and Kelly were back. They were

18 talking about -- they were talking. I don't know their conversation. But Kelly's never

19 really liked Jeremy, and I think he was kind of just talking to him about whatever. But

20 they didn't really like each other.

21 Q And so I guess why did the group leave? Why did you all end up leaving at

22 5 p.m.?

23 A It was the end of the day. The curfew had been set for I believe 6 o'clock.

24 It had been a long day. We had been out there since, you know, 5:30. And we just

25 walked back.
 119

1 Q Was there a plan to go back the next day or next morning, continue?

2 A No, no.

3 Q Were you all thinking at that time that the vote was going to be certified?

4 A No, I think we thought it was over. Yeah, that the vote had been certified,

5 yeah. I know I left -- my head was --

6 Q Sorry. Keep going. I'll stop talking.

7 A No. All I know is that everybody was planning on leaving straight out that

8 next morning. I know we did. I remember feeling -- actually, I think I was in tears

9 when I left. It was just like a sinking feeling, just kind of like, you know, what now?

10 You know, Biden our President now.

11 It was just -- I felt sad when I left. And the whole events from that whole day

12 just -- it was kind of -- it was really traumatic. Just, you know, seeing -- hearing Ashli

13 Babbitt get killed, and then, you know, a lot of people were injured out there, and the

14 police, you know, again, I'm a big supporter. So it was just -- it was just a really

15 emotional day.

16 But no, everybody -- to my knowledge, everybody headed out the next morning,

17 home.

18 Q Were you fearful of any like legal consequences of everyone's actions on

19 January 6th?

20 A No. I guess that evening was the first time that we knew that, uh-oh,

21 because FBI already had a wanted list up, a wanted poster up, and one of our group was

22 on it. And we were like: Oh my goodness. That picture.

23 Q So the whole time you're out there, you're not thinking: Oh my gosh, like

24 people might get arrested for this.

25 You weren't thinking that at all?

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1 A I wasn't.

2 Q I guess help me understand that, right? Help me understand --

3 A It was about -- first of all, honestly -- and maybe I'm just naive or stupid,

4 whatever you want to call it. I did not know we were not supposed to be standing up

5 there. I did not step over a barrier. I did not break one down.

6 I'm walking down. There's thousands of people ahead of me. People are, you

7 know, praying or singing or yelling "traitor." I mean, there was people everywhere.

8 Most people were all up crowded, I mean, the stairs. There was people everywhere.

9 just thought -- again, maybe I'm just dumb. I don't know. I did not know that we were

10 not supposed to be there. I knew there were supposed to be speeches at the Capitol.

11 I didn't know that you couldn't stand on the steps, you know, if there was going to be

12 speeches and stuff. I did not know.

13 Q No, I think I can definitely understand the difference between like standing

14 outside the Capitol Grounds and not knowing it's a restricted area to a certain degree

15 versus going in, though. You didn't think that people going in, there would be some

16 legal consequences for them?

17 A In the Capitol maybe. That's why I didn't do it. But the fact that --1 mean,

18 there was -- you know, before I got up there, there was a thousand people standing

19 around.

20 So I did not know -- and there was not police like trying to -- there were police

21 everywhere, but they were not pushing people off the steps. There were police

22 everywhere, and they were not telling the people that were standing there that they had

23 to leave. We passed a lot of police. And they were --

24 Q And you mentioned people going in being different. So like, for Mr. Meggs,

25 for example, when you're leaving on January 6th, you're not thinking: He went in the
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1 Capitol; he might have been arrested tonight or tomorrow or something like that. You

2 weren't thinking that?

3 A No. After we left and we saw -- and I saw the FBI wanted poster, I thought

4 uh-oh.

5 Q No, I meant like when you left the Capitol on January 6th. Like as you were

6 walking back to the hotel after you all got back, you weren't --

7 A No, at that point I did not -- I did not know. At that point, I had no idea.

8 didn't know the extent of it. I didn't see all those people go in. So where we were

9 standing is not really -- there was -- around the corner is -- I mean, we could look over

10 there and see flash bangs and see all this stuff. But where I was standing, it was

11 relatively peaceful.

12 I didn't see -- I did not witness, eyewitness people going inside the Capitol.

13 didn't see a window get broken. I didn't see any -- that was not on the side of the

14 Capitol I was at, where people were breaking windows and stuff.

15 I knew that our group had gone in. I did not see them go in. And where I was

16 standing, that stuff was not going on.

17 Q I saw a reference in your DC OP, the Florida Oath Keeper chat, it was on page

18 30 if you want to reference it. I can just -- there's a reference from Sea Deep about a

19 FOB, or what I understand to be a forward operating base.

20 What was this in reference to? Do you know what that was in reference to?

21 A I do not know.

22 Q Was there any discussion among you all out there that, you know, the QRF

23 might get activated or folks might come in to help that day?

24 A I was not involved in any of those discussions.

25 Q Did you hear anyone say anything about the QRF maybe being activated to
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1 come help?

2 A Anything that I knew about talking to -- on this operation was before the

3 fact. Like I said, I was absolutely not on Signal at all the day of. The only thing I knew

4 about what was going on was either what was talked about in the DC Florida OP or just

5 people like talking out there.

6 And I don't remember anybody -- I mean, I knew that they had all the stuff over

7 there and there was talk about that, you know, it might be needed, but I didn't know of a

8 specific plan.

9 Q Were there any talks about maybe reinforcements coming in to help?

10 A No.

11 Q Okay. So around what time did you arrive back at your hotel?

12 A I think 5:30.

13 Q So about a 30-minute walk from when you left the Capitol until when you

14 got back to the hotel?

15 A Actually -- actually, I think we started walking back around 5:30. That's

16 when we saw Kelly. And then Jeremy had to finish talking. Then we walked over to

17 the group. Yeah. And then started walking back around 5:30. I got there about 5:45.

18 Q Okay. Did you go to like a dinner that night with any of the Oath Keepers?

19 A No. My husband, he had tried to call me a few times. Finally made

20 contact. He said: Hey, there's a curfew. Do you want me to -- well, first of all, he

21 did -- he wanted to come get me. I said: No, I'm just walking back with him. We'll be

22 back soon.

23 And then he said: Well, there's a curfew.

24 He said: I'm going to go walk down and get us a sandwich or something, and I'll

25 have it for you here, you know, in case, by the time you get back, we can't leave.
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1 So -- and stayed in my room the rest of the night. I did not see anybody after

2 that.

3 Q Were you tracking, though, on the Signal chats like a dinner at an Olive

4 Garden in Virginia that night?

5 A Huh-uh. I never saw. It's not in this chat, and it was not on one that

6 I'm -- that I was in.

7 Q No worries. When did you end up leaving the Washington, D.C., area?

8 A Maybe like 10 o'clock on the 7th. Yeah, we checked out by 10, and then we

9 headed -- stayed the night in Cookeville, Tennessee.

10 Q So then you got back, I'm assuming what, January 8th you got back?

11 A Yes, uh-huh.

12 Q And you were just with your husband the whole time when you went back?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And did you have any conversations with anybody, like any of the Florida

15 Oath Keepers or any other Oath Keepers after January 6th like about what just

16 happened?

17 A I guess -- not -- like on the chat, we talked about -- I think somebody had

18 mentioned that they're going to -- they're going to want to arrest everybody that went in

19 the Capitol. I believe I hear that.

20 Q Were you told to delete your Signal chats?

21 A What?

22 Q Were you told to delete your Signal chats?

23 A No, I don't believe so.

24 Q Okay. You weren't told to delete anything about Oath Keepers or anything

25 like that?
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1 A No. I think Kelly like took us out of some of the groups. He was just

2 like -- whoever is the ad min of the chat can like take people out, and I think he started

3 taking us all out of the chats.

4 Q Okay, got it.

5 Does anybody else have any other followup questions? All right.

6 -
7 - Thanks. Yeah. I mean, I wanted to zoom out to a couple of

8 broader questions, if you don't mind. Does that work for you now,

9 Great.

10 BY-

11 Q So kind of zooming book towards the general discussion of the Oath

12 Keepers, would you, in your opinion, call the Oath Keepers a militia?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And do you know if any chapters of the Oath Keepers organize themselves as

15 a militia explicitly?

16 A I guess I don't totally understand your question. Like, just to get back just

17 so you'll know me a little bit.

18 Q Sure.

19 A I don't really even -- I had to like probably Google what exactly a militia was.

20 I don't have experience in that kind of thing, but I do know that we were called a militia

21 and that it's not illegal to be -- to have a -- form a militia. But, I mean, we just didn't sit

22 around talking about it all the time, but I do -- I would say that I was in a militia.

23 Q That's extremely helpful for us to understand. And do you know if any

24 other militias were involved in trainings with the Oath Keepers? We touched on this a

25 little bit at the beginning, but I wanted to circle back to it.

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1 A No.

2 Q Okay, great. And how -- more generally, how do you view the role of

3 militias in our constitutional system and in America generally?

4 A Again, I -- until I got involved with the Oath Keepers, I've never had any

5 conversation with anybody or really thoughts about militias until I joined this organization

6 that I just thought was a community watch type group.

7 Q Right.

8 A I couldn't tell you right now. I mean, if you said you'd pay me a million

9 dollars, I could not explain to you what a militia does, honestly.

10 Q Okay. That's totally fine. Are you familiar with the Three Percent

11 movement? If not, no worries.

12 A Yes.

13 Q Okay. Would you say the Oath Keepers are a part of that movement?

14 A Oh, okay. I'm sorry. I kind of forgot about the Three Percenters. I know

15 that there were Three Percenters in the Oath Keepers.

16 Q Okay. That's very helpful to know.

17 A Yes.

18 Q And, beyond that, was there any other overlap or communications that you

19 were aware of?

20 A No. I know, at one point, Kelly had made contact with Enrique Tarrio, the

21 Proud Boys leader, and to kind of like join forces, not like gang up together. And

22 we wanted -- and we were separate. You know, we did not want to be Proud Boys, and

23 they were not Oath Keepers, but maybe just like join forces to provide security against,

24 you know, antifa or whatever.

25 That's the only time that I can think of. And, again, like I said before, the
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1 Louisiana Cajun Militia, I think we reached out to them around the Breanna Taylor -- or,

2 no, the NFAC time. But there was never any talk of it's all coming together and there's

3 one big force or anything.

4 And, again, the Three Percenters, I couldn't tell you specifically any that were

5 Three Percenters, but I'd heard of a few people being Three Percenters.

6 Q That's very helpful. And to circle back, when Mr. Meggs was speaking with

7 Enrique Tarrio, when did you hear about that, or when did that conversation take place?

8 A That was around the time when they -- just for the D.C. event, I believe.

9 don't know if it was the one -- I don't know if it started in November when they -- when

10 Kelly went out to the Million MAGA March or whatever or if it was like right before

11 January 6th. I don't know. It kind of all ran together. But I just remember him

12 saying: Hey, I reached out to the Proud Boys leader and --

13 Q But it was for the events including January 6th, but the couple events in

14 D.C.?

15 A I believe so. I believe.

16 Q That's very helpful. And can you tell me anything about the Declaration of

17 Orders We Will Not Obey?

18 A I have not heard of that.

19 Q Okay. That's fine. It's a document on the Oath Keepers website about

20 orders about freedom of speech, freedom of assembly that are kind of organizational

21 principles, as far as we can understand, of the Oath Keepers. So I wanted to ask you if

22 you could enlighten us, but if not --

23 A Not really. Sorry.

24 Q No, that's fine.

25 And is there anything you can tell us about Oath Keeper operations that might
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1 have been called citizen preservation teams or community preparedness teams?

2 A Yes. So there was -- they were trying to get -- again, this is all kind of in the

3 making. It was kind of -- they were trying to get together teams that specialized in radio

4 communications, teams that specialized in medical things, teams that specialized in I

5 guess more of the like military type stuff, like equipment and stuff.

6 But yeah, they were trying to get those together, just people that had different

7 specialties. Again, like I said, there was a whole medical thing, people training on how

8 to do like first aid, stuff like that. And then people responding to like natural disasters, I

9 know they went out to different hurricane sites and stuff like that. But I don't know that

10 that ever kind of came together totally.

11 Q Okay. That's helpful. And just to clarify, what would you say the purpose

12 of these were? You mentioned natural disasters, but were there other purposes?

13 A I don't know the purposes. I'm sorry.

14 Q Okay. No, no, it's all just really good background.

15 And the last question on that point, to your knowledge, did these trainings ever

16 involve firearms trainings?

17 A No. And, again, when -- there was never formal trainings, per se. All I

18 know is of two occasions when a group of guys said: Hey, you all want to go out to

19 shoot your guns? There's a place we can go. We need at least six people to hold a

20 spot. You know, everybody pays a certain amount, and we all go out there and shoot

21 and train. And it was kind of just generic.

22 Q Okay.

23 A Well, there was a -- so that was -- and I didn't get to go. I didn't do any of

24 that stuff. There was a -- we had a -- when Jeremy Brown first joined the organization,

25 he came to Mike Adams, I believe, and said: Hey, I would like to come in and talk to
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1 your group. I'm a Special Forces Green Beret. I think I have some information that can

2 help you all in your organization because you all -- I think you all are focusing too much on

3 BLM and antifa when it's really the big picture. You know, BLM and antifa, they're

4 nothing compared to, you know, the big picture of who's really the enemy or, you know.

5 Q So what do you think he meant by "big picture"?

6 A The elite globalists who are trying to take over the United States.

7 - Okay. Actually, on that note, I think my colleague,_ might

8 have had a couple of questions.

9 Ms. Propes. Okay.

10 BY-

11 Q That was a great lead-in to what I was going to ask. I was going to ask a

12 little bit about Jeremy.

13 So you're talking about elite globalists and Q. Was there a lot of people who

14 were Q adherents or believed in QAnon in the Oath Keepers?

15 A Not that I -- not that I was aware of. He's the one that first -- you know, he

16 was like: Oh, you all got to listen to Alex Jones, and you all have to -- I mean, he was just

17 totally completely A up in it. I mean, day, night, he watched the news and listened to

18 Alex Jones and Info Wars. I mean, he was just nonstop. I think that's all he ever

19 thought of.

20 Q Yeah. And so --

21 A But I didn't know of other people. You know, other than -- the only really

22 radicals that I am aware of was Stewart Rhodes and Jeremy Brown about, you know,

23 talking about the Civil War and all this stuff. We --

24 Q So, in your mind -- go ahead. Sorry.

25 A I'm saying, in my mind, I never -- when I joined the Oath Keepers, I had
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1 nothing -- I was not -- I didn't know that we were going to talk about that kind of stuff.

2 thought we were -- again, I thought it was a community watch. A neighborhood watch

3 is what I thought it was.

4 Q Right. So you would say that -- you're equating like Q with the radicals, and

5 there weren't that many of them. It wasn't something that came up in conversation a

6 lot in the chats?

7 A No. Not really, no. And, again, I don't really know --

8 Mr. Rickman. - we're losing your signal.

9 - Oh, yeah, I was going to ask is that me? I can hear you, so keep

10 going.

11 Ms. Propes. So, other than Jeremy Brown, I don't -- I couldn't name anybody

12 that told me -- that would have said that they believed in the Q conspiracy.

13 BY

14 Q Yeah, okay. And this is the last question about it: Did Jeremy ever give

15 you a sense of -- you said he stopped believing in Q or I guess left Q or whatever the

16 phrase is?

17 A Yeah. He said -- he told us that he used to believe in Q, and then

18 he -- he -- he debunked it or whatever and knew that it was -- you know, wasn't legit.

19 But yeah. So he -- again, he called us all together. He said he wanted to talk to the

20 group about, you know, the big picture.

21 And he came in. This was the first time we all met him. He came in there, and

22 he had a copy of "Unconditional Warfare," the little handbook, pocket handbook or

23 whatever. And he was just telling us of the things that he learned being in Special

24 Forces, what they did as far as, what, counterinsurgency type operations because he

25 believed that -- that somebody else was trying to take over the government.
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1 Q Right.

2 A Yeah.

3 Q The global elitists you were talking about?

4 A Yes.

5 Q But, when you said he debunked it, did he explain it a little bit? That

6 was -- I'm guessing that was pre-January 6th, right? Because you obviously wouldn't

7 have talked to him.

8 A That was pre-January 6th. I think it just came up in conversation how he

9 used to -- he used to just really follow Q, and then he just said he stopped. Just like he

10 used to be a huge Trump supporter, and then now -- then he told me that he thought that

11 Trump was bad. I don't know. It was kind of hard to follow.

12 Q Yeah, okay. So someone who just kind of believes strongly in one thing,

13 then believes strongly in -- and he didn't give you a lot of detail. It was just kind of like,

14 okay, today you believe this?

15 A Yeah.

16 Q Okay. Well, thank you. That's very helpful.

17 A Thank you.

18 - Thanks,_

19 I have one or two more questions on this kind of piece of questioning, and then I

20 wanted to transition to a few other background questions, again, just to understand how

21 we can best paint a picture of what happened that day. I know it's been a while, but

22 we're getting there.

23 Mr. Rickman. I don't want to do this twice. Let's get it done.

24 BY-

25 Q So have you heard of any other instances where Oath Keepers engaged in
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1 training with current or former law enforcement officials?

2 A Nope. The only training that -- again, the only really interaction I had with

3 Oath Keepers was the Florida chapter, and it was kind of just our little small group. It

4 was mainly me and the people that we've talked about, you know, when you all showed

5 me the list of different people. Nobody really outside of that.

6 Oh, training. So, yeah, the only thing that I ever -- so the only time I met up with

7 Oath Keepers before January 6th, the very first time I met them, we met and just had a

8 little meeting. And one of the guys was teaching us about ham radio, how to get a

9 license. And then Kenny Harrelson was there with all of his equipment, and he was just

10 showing us his equipment. So we met for a few hours at a hotel conference room and

11 just kind of met each other.

12 But there was never like a -- there was not an Oath Keeper -- like people would

13 say: Hey, is there like a -- do we have a training facility? Do we have a meeting site?

14 No, there was nothing -- it was not formal. It was not organized. And we literally met

15 at that conference room.

16 And then the second time I met the group was at the -- when we met with Jeremy

17 Brown and he did that little training. It wasn't necessarily training. We didn't really

18 even know what he was going to talk about, but that's when he just started, you know,

19 telling us about his experience in Special Forces.

20 Those are the only two times that I had anything that could be considered

21 training. And then, outside of that, the two -- the two times like a handful of them met

22 up for the firearms. So there was those two times and then those two meetings.

23 Other than that, that was it.

24 Q Okay. That's good to know.

25 A Stewart -- or if any of the other chapters had trainings, I'm not aware of.
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1 All I knew about was the little Florida area, Florida group.

2 Q The last question on that, in the Florida area or any other Oath Keepers you

3 were aware of just peripherally, did you know of any Active Duty military or law

4 enforcement that were in the ranks?

5 A No.

6 Q Okay. Thank you.

7 All right. So I'm moving now to some more background questions, and then I will

8 handitbackto-

9 So zooming out broadly, what are your overall impressions of President Trump?

10 A I used to be like one of his number one fans. And, then after this happened

11 and he was -- did not -- I mean, I feel like he called us all to D.C., and then he kind of stood

12 back and let everybody get into this big mess, and then he hasn't done anything to help

13 anybody. So I'm not as big of a fan right now. But I think he was an absolutely

14 excellent President.

15 Q That was my next couple of questions. Why do you think he was elected in

16 2016?

17 A Because he -- he stands for the American people and he's like that voice,

18 that he spoke out on things that the average person wouldn't speak out on. I mean, he

19 would say things all -- I mean, and he would just say -- tell it how it was.

20 And I believe that he supported law enforcement. I believe that he was a true

21 patriot and that he loves this country. And I just believe that he was an overall good

22 person and a good family.

23 And, again, I never had a negative thought about him until afterwards, and I didn't

24 feel he was as supportive as he should have been for his supporters.

25 Q What actions did he take that you were particularly proud of while he was in
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1 office?

2 A Just being supportive of law enforcement where, you know, before that, the

3 actions of the previous President were -- I believe were getting law enforcement killed.

4 Gosh. Just the way -- the border security. I think that -- I think that other countries

5 respected us when Trump was our President, and I do not believe that they do now. It's

6 an embarrassment, and it's horrible. It breaks my heart what this country is -- currently

7 the state of it now. If Trump was still in power, things would not be going downhill like

8 they are. I truly believe that.

9 Q What do you think when he was in office were his biggest challenges, his

10 biggest foes?

11 A Oh my gosh. Before he ever even set foot in the office, the left was trying

12 to destroy him with false allegations and, you know -- yeah. They -- from day one. If

13 they had come together, if everybody had come together and let him do what he -- this

14 country would be in the greatest shape ever. But, yeah, they did everything they could.

15 And it was out of hate for him. Like I said before, the people that hated him so much

16 that they put their hate over the love for our country to me is a big shame.

17 Q Got it. And do you think most Oath Keepers supported or still support

18 President Trump?

19 A I don't know. So, after the 6th, we kind of -- I kind of lost contact with Oath

20 Keepers. I know not everybody supported Trump that was an Oath Keeper. And I

21 knew a couple of people that did not vote for him. But most people did, but not

22 everybody. And it was not a requisite. You didn't have to.

23 Q So can we dig into that a little bit more? I'd like to do that. Do you think

24 that there was conversation that you saw about how the Oath Keepers could support

25 President Trump while he was in office, whether it was Mr. Rhodes or anyone else?
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1 A While he was in office? No. I mean, we didn't even talk about the

2 President or the election until after the election. That never -- that just really -- I mean,

3 we were all proud of him. We were, you know -- like, I attended a Trump rally.

4 Nobody ever thought that he needed help while he was in office. Just after, you know,

5 he lost the election is the first that I knew of.

6 Q Do you think that President Trump, on the other hand, supports the Oath

7 Keepers or did support the Oath Keepers before January 6th?

8 A I think --1 think he did before January 6th. I don't know specifically the

9 Oath Keepers, but I know I think he like, you know, talked to the Proud Boys or, you

10 know -- I can't remember what he said. You know what I'm talking about, when

11 he -- stand down or --

12 Q Stand back and stand by. Yeah.

13 A So I believe that he -- I believe that he would have been in support of us, the

14 Oath Keepers, but I don't know specifically. And, again, I didn't see the support

15 afterwards.

16 I mean, every now and then, he will speak up now and say, you know, political

17 prisoners and got to do something, but I feel like he could do more.

18 Q Who are the people -- well, I guess obvious question there: What do you

19 think he should be doing?

20 A I don't know. Just speaking out or, you know -- I don't know what he could

21 do, really. But I don't think -- he hasn't said much. Like there have been a lot of

22 people that have come in, you know -- come in defense of all the people that were

23 arrested and that are still sitting in jail over a year later, people wanting, you know,

24 justice.

25 And there are a lot of people in Congress that have come out and spoke out for
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1 the January 6th people, but Trump, you didn't see him doing that very often.

2 BY

3 Q I have one quick: Do you consider the Oath Keepers political prisoners

4 right now?

5 A I do.

6 Q It's a personal question, just a personal question.

7 A I do.

8 Q Okay.

9 Sorry,_ I just had to ask that real quick.

10 - We were on the same track.

11 BY-

12 Q I actually was going to ask, do you think that President Trump should have

13 pardoned individuals who went into the Capitol?

14 A I believe there was -- there's a difference. People that went in and caused

15 damage or harmed the police or stole things or, you know, destroyed anything, those are

16 not political prisoners. They should be prosecuted.

17 The people that just went in and that weren't harming anybody I think are

18 different.

19 Q That's a good distinction to draw. Thank you.

20 Earlier you mentioned the Proud Boys and how President Trump's comment in the

21 first debate to stand back and stand by also led you to believe that he was supporting

22 some of the work that the Oath Keepers were doing over the summer and in the fall.

23 So why did you draw that parallel? Do you think that the Proud Boys and Oath

24 Keepers are connected in a certain sense, whether it's because of President Trump or

25 because of some of the causes he stood for?

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1 A I believe they're similar but different. I mean, I believe -- I mean, I

2 don't -- I've never really thought about it, but I don't know if the Proud Boys are a militia

3 or not, but I think we're similar. We're just, you know, nonmilitary, you know, not active

4 military, not active law enforcement, just concerned citizens who want to take a more

5 active stand against things that are going on.

6 Q And, again, this would be chiefly antifa and BLM?

7 A Uh-huh. Yes.

8 Q Great. So, to the best of your knowledge, was any one of the Oath Keepers

9 ever in contact with anyone from President Trump's inner circle or administration?

10 A No. The only -- the only -- the closest that -- to Trump was Roger Stone,

11 that I'm aware of.

12 Q And were you aware of any communications between any one of the Oath

13 Keepers and other figures in the "stop the steal" movement, the rally organizers?

14 A No. As far as I knew, I think that Kelly got -- had communication with Ali

15 Alexander, but I'm not really sure.

16 Q Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.

17 Who are some of the other national politicians that you associated with before

18 January 6th, like Andy Biggs, Paul Gosar, Lauren Boebert, Marjorie Taylor Greene? Were

19 there any folks who you particularly identified with?

20 A There might be -- you said -- will you restart that question, please?

21 Q Sure. Of course. So were there any other national politicians that you

22 thought supported the Oath Keepers before January 6th? You mentioned there are

23 folks in Congress who have spoken up for the defendants. Can you name some of those

24 folks?

25 A Actually, I can't. Now, like I said, after the fact, I see, you know, Marjorie
 137

1 Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz, a few of them like speaking up for them now. But,

2 beforehand, it never even crossed my mind.

3 Q Okay. That makes sense. All right. So I just have a couple more

4 questions, I promise.

5 So moving -- zooming in on fall 2020, when the claims of the stolen election

6 started to crop up --

7 A Yes.

8 Q -- can you tell us about how President Trump's tweets about the election

9 influenced your beliefs about why it was stolen?

10 A I took his -- I mean, he tweeted so much, and I kind of took him with a grain

11 of salt. He was not my biggest influence on this. I mean there were, you know, many

12 organizations and, you know, just different people. He was not my major influence on

13 believing the election was stolen.

14 Q Okay. So were his tweets discussed very much amongst Oath Keepers after

15 the election, or not really?

16 A Not really. I mean, like I said, we got our -- after the election, the main

17 thing where we got our information was from Kellye SoRelle and Stewart Rhodes saying

18 we got to look into this fraud. But it really wasn't what Trump was saying.

19 Q And I know you said you weren't sure about all the details earlier, but I just

20 wanted to circle back and ask, when you had those conversations with Kellye SoRelle and

21 Mr. Rhodes, what specific claims of fraud were they discussing?

22 A Well, they were -- she was there doing the poll watching, and she saw the

23 van come in during the middle of the night, bringing boxes of things. And that was the

24 main thing because she saw it firsthand. And then, looking back, I don't remember

25 specifically what she said.

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1 Then, after that, she was just like: You-all, we need every example of vote fraud,

2 voter fraud that you all can find. So we would just get online and just do searches.

3 But --

4 Q Okay. And what do you think of President Trump's continuing claims that

5 the election was stolen? He's obviously still talking about it today.

6 A What do I think about it? I agree.

7 Q You agree, okay. Do you think that these claims deserve action? Should

8 the Oath Keepers be doing anything about those claims?

9 A No, not the Oath Keepers, but people that can do something about it should.

10 Q And who would those people be?

11 A I don't know. Congress. I don't know. People that -- I don't know.

12 People that can file lawsuits and look into it, investigate it and prove the, you

13 know -- prove in a court of law all the claims that have been made. No, not Oath

14 Keepers. No.

15 Q Okay. That's good to understand. But on that note, have you heard -- I

16 know you left the group shortly after the January 6th events, but have you heard anyone

17 before you left talking about the need to take action to protect future elections or to

18 pursue those claims of fraud going forward?

19 A No.

20 Q Okay.

21 A People started getting -- I guess Jessica got arrested in January. Kelly got

22 arrested February 17th. And then, after that, I did not -- I had like minimal contact with

23 Kenny and Caleb and Jeremy, just kind of checking in, are you still okay? Is, you know,

24 anybody, you know, coming after -- I don't know. But no.

25 The beginning -- the beginning of February is when I pretty much lost contact with
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1 anything Oath Keepers other than the handful of people, but we weren't talking

2 group -- we weren't talking business. It was just all about: Are you okay? What are

3 we going to do? All our friends are being held in prison, in jail.

4 Q Okay. And I just have one more question, then I'll hand it back to -

5 -
6 So I know you spoke earlier about how you regret that law enforcement was

7 harmed on January 6th and that you are still a strong supporter of law enforcement.

8 After what happened on January 6th, do you think the Oath Keepers will continue

9 to try to coordinate with law enforcement against threats like antifa and BLM?

10 A I cannot say what any Oath Keepers will do because I am no longer a part of

11 the organization, and I do not know what they talk about to this day. Like I said, I left

12 the -- I left the chat. I don't know -- I left the OK Florida chat probably -- probably before

13 February, probably sometime in January.

14 And then, after that, it was just a few of us that had become friends, you know,

15 had our own little chat back and forth, but it was, again, no more business. It was all

16 about: We've got people that are in fear of going to jail, and some of them are already

17 there, and what do we do?

18 It was no more talking about -- we weren't -- we did not -- as a matter of fact, if

19 anybody was still involved with Oath Keepers, it was not going to be this Oath Keepers.

20 It was going to be a new group of just -- it was not going to be -- nobody wanted to be

21 associated with Stewart Rhodes' group anymore.

22 Q Okay. Do you think that the Oath Keepers should coordinate with law

23 enforcement in the future?

24 A Do I think -- I don't know. I guess no.

25 Q Okay. Well, thank you so much for answering all these questions. I know
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they were a lot.

-
1

2 I'll hand it back to you.

3 BY

4 Q So I just want to touch on this quickly, because I think I know the answer, but

5 I just want to make sure: Were you responsible for any like financial records or anything

6 of the Oath Keeper chapter in Florida?

7 A No.

8 Q Do you know who was responsible for bookkeeping or financial records?

9 Mr. Rickman. Let me clarify. She did do one thing. So --

10 Ms. Propes. All I did was try to get -- so, before the January 6th, everybody was

11 wanting Oath Keepers T-shirts to wear and whatever. And Kelly, I think he had a

12 sister-in-law or somebody that made shirts. And he was trying to coordinate all the

13 details, and he was getting like overwhelmed.

14 I'm like: Hey, dude, is there anything I can do to help? I was like: You know,

15 do you want me to -- he bought all these shirts, and I wanted to make sure -- and he

16 always did that. He would just pay for everybody's stuff, you know. And I wanted to

17 make sure that people paid him back for the shirts that he bought.

18 And so I was like coordinating. You know, that was the least I could do to help

19 him out. Laying in bed with-you know, I'm like: Hey, you know, do you want a

20 T-shirt? What size? Be sure and pay. And I'd never touch the money. I think it was

21 supposed to go a cash app, or it was -- to his cash app or to maybe the Oath Keepers.

22 I think, at the website, there was a donations that he wanted people to just pay

23 there. But I never saw money. I just coordinated with making sure people got shirts.

24 BY

25 Q That makes sense. So you weren't like responsible for bookkeeping on

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1 behalf of the chapter, with dues, anything like that?

2 A Not at all. No. The only time that money was exchanged was when you

3 go -- when you join and you make your dues fees or whatever.

4 Q Do you know who was in charge of bookkeeping or accounting for the Oath

5 Keepers?

6 A Stewart had a lady named Nancy, some old, old lady.

7 Q Lenard (ph) maybe?

8 A Who?

9 Q Lenard (ph) maybe?

10 A I don't know. I never knew her last name. I just knew it was Nancy and

11 that she was like his secretary, and maybe she -- she did a newsletter or something or

12 maybe updated the website, but --

13 Q Was she like out West, do you think? Does that ring a bell?

14 A I don't know where she was from, but probably she lived in Florida.

15 Q Okay. Were you aware of the Oath Keepers using any type of

16 cryptocurrency or anything like that?

17 A No, never heard of that.

18 Q All right. Did the FBI or DOJ ask you any questions or bring up any topics

19 that we failed to bring up today?

20 A Can you think of any?

21 A question to Mr. Rickman as well.

22 Mr. Rickman. Yeah. Obviously, the DOJ's investigation is a little different than

23 yours, of course. I mean, some of their -- you know, through our couple meetings, I

24 mean, I'm sure there were topics discussed that, you know, aren't related to this. So, I

25 mean, it's tough for me to answer that, you know, and I don't want to put her in a bad,
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1 you know --

2 I understand. At a high level, though, like is there

3 anything -- was it like more January 6th more at a granular level, or was it maybe exhibits

4 that we may not have that they might have collected elsewhere?

5 I guess I'm trying to make sure we didn't miss any big picture topics, Anthony.

6 Mr. Rickman. No. I mean, you know, I think the January 6th, obviously, where

7 she was, what she was doing is the main focus. Obviously, communications via, you

8 know, the Signal chats, which we went through, was a large focus of that portion.

9 You know, I know there's the Jeremy Brown issue that is not necessarily related to

10 your investigation. There are things that we discussed related specifically to Jeremy

11 Brown, because you know he has other charges --

12 Yes.

13 Mr. Rickman. -- beyond the trespass. So we did speak about him to the extent

14 of other things outside of the scope of your investigation related to him. You know,

15 obviously, he has those weapons charges, those type of things.

16 Anything else really specific to your investigation other than where she was, what

17 she was doing, her communications. You know, we discussed that, that meeting Jeremy

18 Brown had leading up to it in a little bit of detail where, you know, he talked to the group

19 about the pamphlets.

20 Other than that, I'm --

21 Ms. Propes. When we met, it was mainly like discovery. They were like, you

22 know -- they had me ID, you know, all these different --

23 Mr. Rickman. Yeah, looking at photos, who's that?

24 Ms. Propes. Who -- here are the names, you know, what are the

25 different -- Gray Gator and all that, you know, they wanted to know who those people
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1 were.

2 Like what I did in the beginning, but just about pictures?

3 Ms. Propes. Yes.

4 Mr. Rickman. This guy did it so much nicer. I mean, you know, you understand

5 when you go to the DOJ versus something like this voluntary.

6 So, in listening and being present at both, the same amount of information came

7 out. If not, I would tell you I think more information came out during your investigation,

8 based a lot, in my opinion, on the nature and tone of the deposition as opposed to

9 debriefing.

10 Got it. Understood, and thank you for that. I just wanted to

11 make sure we weren't interested anything.

12 BY

13 Q And, on that note, Ms. Propes, I just want to say thank you for voluntarily

14 agreeing to come in for this transcribed interview. I know the committee, I know a lot of

15 politicians are saying what we're doing, but, honestly, we can't write an accurate report

16 unless we're talking to folks like you that were there on January 6th and understand

17 where you were coming from, what you were thinking, what you were seeing.

18 Our goal is just to write an accurate report so that another January 6th never

19 happens again.

20 And that was my last question: How can we prevent -- like, what

21 recommendation would you give us to prevent another January 6th from happening?

22 A Oh, well, I guess, number one, fair elections. That's all I can really think of

23 because that's what -- why people were so upset is the election not being fair. And I

24 think, you know, with election laws and, you know, all this mail-in voting and all the

25 chances that -- for people to put in fake votes or, you know, destroy votes. I think
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1 something has to be done about that.

2 But I don't -- I don't see another January 6th happening. I mean, people I think

3 have learned a lot from this event. I can't see it. I don't know of anybody that would

4 be participating in something like this again.

5 Thank you. It's always really interesting to hear what folks think

6 that we can recommend back to the committee to try to prevent this.

7 And so, again, thank you for voluntarily sitting with us here today.

8 And we will go off the record at 2:07 p.m.

9 [Whereupon, at 2:07 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

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1 Certificate of Deponent/Interviewee

4 I have read the foregoing _ _ pages, which contain the correct transcript of the

5 answers made by me to the questions therein recorded.

10 Witness Name

11

12

13

14 Date

15