1

5 SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE THE

6 JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL,

7 U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

8 WASHINGTON, D.C.

10

11

12 INTERVIEW OF: ANNIE HOWELL

13

14

15

16 Friday, December 14, 2022

17

18 Washington, D.C.

19

20

21 The interview in the above matter was held via Webex, commencing at 1:00 p.m.
 2

2 Appearances:

5 For the SELECT COMMITTEE TO INVESTIGATE

6 THE JANUARY 6TH ATTACK ON THE U.S. CAPITOL:

8 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

9 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

10 INVESTIGATIVE COUNSEL

11 RESEARCHER

12

13

14 For ANNIE HOWELL:

15

16 HEATHER SHANER, ESQ.

 3

3 We're going on the record at 1:00 p.m.

4 Good afternoon, Ms. Howell.

5 This is a transcribed interview of Ms. Annie Howell, conducted by the House

6 Select Committee to Investigate the January 6th Attack on the United States Capitol

7 pursuant to House Resolution 503.

8 At this time, I'd ask the witness to please state your full name and please spell

9 your last name for the record.

10 Ms. Howell. Annie Christine Howell, H-o-w-e-1-1.

11 Thank you.

12 So this will be a staff-led interview. We don't have any members presents, but if

13 members are present, they are able to step in and ask you questions as well.

14 In the room today we have Investigative Counsel; -

15 - Investigative Counsel; Investigative Counsel; a n d - - - oh,

16 no, sorry, is not present. I apologize.

17 At this time, could counsel for Ms. Howell please state her name for the record?

18 Ms. Shaner. Heather Shaner, counsel for Annie Howell.

19 All right.

20 We also have an official reporter transcribing the record for this interview.

21 Please wait until each question's completed before you begin your response. We'll try

22 to wait for you to finish your answer before we start our next question.

23 Also, the stenographer cannot record nonverbal responses, such as shaking your

24 head. I know we tend to do that sometimes in regular talk, but, please, it's important

25 that you answer each question with an audible, verbal response during the interview here
 4

1 today.

2 We ask that you also provide complete answers based on your best recollection.

3 That's all we can ask for, your best recollection. If the question is not clear, please ask

4 us for a clarification. And if you don't know the answer, please just simply say so.

5 Before we get into the questions, I want to go through just some ground rules like

6 we did the last time we spoke to you, Ms. Howell.

7 So, first, it's important that you understand that this interview is voluntary. If at

8 any time you would like to stop speaking with us, that is your choice. Similarly, if at any

9 point you need to discuss something with your attorney, Ms. Shaner, in private, just let us

10 know. We'll take a break, put everything on mute, turn our cameras off, so that you can

11 speak with Ms. Shaner in private.

12 Second, this interview is not under oath. I know this is obvious. I'm confident

13 you're going to tell us the truth. But because this is a congressional investigation, you

14 are obligated under Federal law to tell us the truth, the same as if you were talking to the

15 FBI or Department of Justice. It is unlawful to deliberately provide false information to

16 Congress. And, for this interview, providing false information could result in criminal

17 penalties such as perjury and/or false statements.

18 So do you understand that, Ms. Howell?

19 Ms. Howell. Yes, I do.

20 Third, you are not obligated to keep the fact of this interview and

21 what we discuss confidential. You are free to tell whomever you wish that you met with

22 us, including the prosecutor or judge in this case, or you can tell no one at all. It's your

23 decision.

24 And this next point is pretty important, and I want you to hear this directly from

25 me. The select committee is separate, independent from the Department of Justice
 5

1 investigations. We have no involvement with the prosecutions, and the Department of

2 Justice is not a partner with the select committee and its investigation.

3 The select committee also is not a party to your criminal case and is not agreeing

4 to submit anything on your behalf to the judge, nor can we make any representation

5 whether, if you tell the judge you met with us, that the judge will be more favorable

6 during your sentencing. We can't make any representations about that.

7 And, fifth, we have agreed with you and your attorney not to share the substance

8 of what you say to us today with the Department of Justice prior to your sentencing, but

9 there are two notable exceptions to that. If you were to tell us about evidence of a

10 crime that we thought law enforcement was unaware of or if we had reason to believe

11 that you were lying to us through this interview, then we would be obligated to tell the

12 Department of Justice or another appropriate law enforcement agency.

13 And if you tell the judge that you met with us today, please understand that may

14 prompt questions from the judge about what you said and whether it's consistent with

15 your prior statements and acceptance of responsibility, and if the judge asks us questions,

16 we may have to respond and divulge portions of what you said to us here today.

17 Does that all make sense?

18 Ms. Howell. Yes.

19 Okay.

20 So, again, before we get started, logistically, please just let us know if you need

21 any breaks or would like to discuss something with your attorney. I'll be looking at the

22 time, so if I see we're going a little long, I'll just throw in, like, a little 5-minute break so we

23 can clear our brains and then come back so we can stay fresh.

24 But, with that, we'll get started. Ms. Shaner, did you have anything before I

25 launch in?
 6

1 Ms. Shaner. No, I don't.

2 Thank you.

3 EXAMINATION

4 BY

5 Q Okay. So, Ms. Howell, first, just tell us a little bit about yourself, where

6 you're from, how long you've lived there, and then a little bit of your educational

7 background, please.

8 A Okay. My name is Annie Howell. I am from Pennsylvania. I was born

9 and raised in a town called Forty Fort. I was living in Swoyersville. I currently reside in

10 a town called Wilkes-Barre.

11 I went to high school at Wyoming Valley West, and I went to college at Luzerne

12 County Community College. I went for graphic design. I didn't finish right away; I

13 finished later in life with an associate's in graphic design.

14 And right now I'm a part-time Uber driver. I'm also a painter, artist. I'm a

15 full-time mother. I share custody with my son's father. My son is 7 years old; he's

16 going to be 8. He plays a lot of sports, so he keeps me busy with that. Tonight, for

17 example, he has three soccer games.

18 And, aside from that, I really just do art and try to stay busy with that, and my son

19 keeps me busy.

20 Q That's great.

21 So, just to make sure we're clear, where do you live right now, like, as of right

22 now? What town?

23 A Right now, I live in Wilkes-Barre.

24 Q Okay. And that's in Pennsylvania, right?

25 A Yes, Pennsylvania. Luzerne County.

 7

1 Ms. Shaner. you're frozen.

2 Can you all see me? Can you all hear me? Am I frozen on your

3 screen?

4 Ms. Howell. I see you.

5 Okay.

6 BY

7 Q So, Ms. Howell, going back, let's go back to the general election timeframe,

8 so we're going back to November of 2020. Before the general election in 2020, how

9 would you describe your level of political engagement throughout former President

10 Trump's term?

11 A Oh. I'm sorry. Could you repeat that?

12 Q How would you describe, like, your level of political engagement? Like, did

13 you follow politics during President Trump's term?

14 A I did, yes. I was heavily involved really only between September of 2020

15 and then through January 6th of 2021.

16 Q So let's go back to 2016 when he was first elected. And through 2016

17 through 2020, were you following politics pretty closely throughout those 4 years?

18 A I followed them. I wouldn't say "closely."

19 Q Yeah.

20 A I wasn't volunteering. I wasn't an activist. I wasn't door-knocking or

21 volunteering or anything like that. I was just supportive on social media sometimes, and

22 I was outspoken about it publicly, like, to family and friends. But, aside from that, I had

23 no other involvement.

24 Q Great. So that's actually a perfect segue. You said you followed it some

25 on social media. What, I guess, sources did you use to read about political news during
 8

1 those 4 years of President Trump's term?

2 A Newsmax, FOX, and then I would follow other people such as Sean Hannity,

3 Laura Ingraham. And then there was a couple others. Just, they had --1 can't

4 remember their names verbatim, but they had a large social media presence, right-wing

5 groups on Face book, and, later, not until 2020, but on Parler too. So there was Dan

6 Bongino who I followed, and then Dan Scavino. And then, of course, Trump's kids I

7 followed on social media, as well, and then his personal Twitter and Facebook account

8 and then Parler account.

9 Q Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.

10 Let's break that down a little bit. Sounds like you watched some news on

11 television. So what channels did you rely on news when you were watching only on the

12 television?

13 A FOX mainly --

14 Q Okay.

15 A -- from 2016 through 2020. And then, as Newsmax got bigger, I began to

16 watch them more than I did FOX. So, after the election, I would say between, you know,

17 November, December, through the 6th, I mainly just watched Newsmax.

18 Q Okay.

19 And let's talk about, like, print publications like The Wall Street Journal or New

20 York Times or anything. Did you read any of those newspapers, like, traditional

21 newspapers? Did you read those?

22 A No, not really.

23 Q Okay.

24 A Yeah, no.

25 Q That's fine.
 9

1 And then you also mentioned -- I heard you mention Parler and stuff, so let's get

2 into, like, the social media applications. I'm going to go through just a list of them.

3 Just tell me if you used them to stay abreast of political events, okay?

4 So, Facebook?

5 A Yes.

6 Q Okay. Parler?

7 A Yes.

8 Q Reddit?

9 A No.

10 Q Okay. Telegram?

11 A Yes.

12 Q Okay. Twitter?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Gettr?

15 A What was that?

16 Q G-e-t-t-r, Gettr?

17 A No.

18 Q Okay. [Link]?

19 A No.

20 Q Gab, G-a-b?

21 A No.

22 Q And then Wimkin, W-i-m-k-i-n?

23 A No.

24 Q All right. So which of these social media sources did you rely on the most,

25 if you had to rank a few of them?

 10

1 A Face book.

2 Q Face book was the most? And, I guess, who were the individuals, if there

3 were individuals, that you were following or relying on the most on Facebook to receive

4 your information?

5 A Dan Scavino I would say would be number one. And then lvanka, Eric, and

6 Don would come in second, and then the President himself. Those ones mainly. And

7 then Sean Hannity would come next.

8 Q Okay.

9 A Laura Ingraham.

10 Q So it was Sean Hannity and Laura Ingraham, you would follow them on

11 Face book in addition to watching their traditional television shows on FOX?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Okay.

14 And you just mentioned that you followed the President. So did you follow the

15 President on all the social media platforms that you were on?

16 A Yes, I did.

17 Q Okay. And just to make sure we're clear, which platform did you primarily

18 follow the President on?

19 A Facebook, Twitter, Parler.

20 Q Okay. I guess -- and this is more of, like, a soft question to better

21 understand your mindset at this time -- what made you want to follow the President

22 during this time period?

23 A I thought that he was speaking truth to us and telling us things that the

24 mainstream media would not.

25 Q Did you trust the President's, for example, tweets or messages on Facebook
 11

1 more than you trusted traditional media news --

2 A Yes.

3 Q -- sources?

4 A Yes.

5 Q So, speaking of that, right after the general election in 2020, so right after

6 November 3rd of 2020, did you believe that the election had been stolen from former

7 President Trump?

8 A Yes.

9 Q What made you believe that at this time?

10 A Locally, I was receiving a lot of calls -- as I said, I was heavily involved at the

11 time, so I was receiving a lot of calls that there were discrepancies at voting stations.

12 People weren't allowed to vote. People were being told that they already voted.

13 People were being told that they received a absentee ballot or mail-in ballot. So I was

14 getting a lot of these phone calls.

15 And one of President Trump's close advisors -- his name was Kurt; he was also

16 business partners with Don -- reached out to me and asked me to help them collect

17 affidavits in Lackawanna County, which is Scranton, Pennsylvania, for eight counties total

18 locally. So, in conjunction with --

19 Q I'm going to stop you right there, because we're going to get into that a little

20 later about the affidavit. I believe you were finding affidavits.

21 But, I guess, from the news -- we're thinking about news. What you made you

22 think the election had been stolen from what you were seeing in the news?

23 A Really, I mean, looking back at it now, I'm not sure exactly. I think it was

24 just from people continuously telling me that the election had been stolen.

25 But, at the time, I thought that the numbers were being manipulated, that the
 12

1 mail-in ballots were being manipulated, and that's how they were able to steal the

2 election, was through -- under the curtain of COVID we were seeing at the time. So

3 that's what made it seem likely or feasible to me, was that people were able to, I guess,

4 forge votes more easily --

5 Q Right.

6 A -- during this election than in past elections.

7 Q By chance, were you learning of this information that you just discussed

8 through maybe, like, "Stop the Steal" social media pages or hashtag? Is that kind of

9 what you were following at this time?

10 A Absolutely. Yes.

11 Q Okay.

12 And I guess, timing-wise, when did you start to believe that the election will been

13 stolen? Was it immediately on election night, or was it the next day? When did you

14 start to think, okay, the election's being stolen?

15 A Immediately. I would say --

16 Q Okay.

17 A -- even before we had the final results, I believed that the election was going

18 to be stolen.

19 Q And this was in part due to what you were reading through these social

20 media sites? Is that fair to say?

21 A Yes.

22 Q Okay.

23 BY

24 Q Ms. Howell, is something that you recall was former President Trump

25 claiming earlier in 2020 that, if he were to lose, it was because the election was stolen?
 13

1 A Yes.

2 Q So that's something that maybe stuck in your mind going into the election if

3 that it looked like it was going to go the other way towards Biden?

4 A Yes. Yes, that stuck in my mind. And also, too, just the group that I was

5 surrounded with, I think it stuck in their mind too. So constantly being around people

6 that believed that, talking about that, and then surrounding myself and engulfing myself

7 in the various social media pages and the right-wing media sources, yeah, I believed it

8 wholeheartedly. But that did stick out in my mind.

9 Q One thing I wanted to ask real quick. You mentioned Dan Scavino, for

10 instance, as someone you followed. Do you recall following anyone on social media

11 related to President Trump's legal team or lawyers, assumed or known to be associated

12 with President Trump, such as Rudy Giuliani or Lin Wood, Sidney Powell, Jenna Ellis?

13 A All of the above.

14 Q Okay. And do you recall where you followed them, which social media

15 websites or applications?

16 A Parler and Facebook.

17 Q And did you start, if you recall, following them before the election or really,

18 like, election day and after when people could tell it was going to be contested or

19 President Trump started raising some issues?

20 A Rudy Giuliani I think I followed before. The other three, Lin Wood and the

21 other two, Jenna and -- what's the other girl's name?

22 Q Sidney Powell?

23 A Sidney Powell, yeah. Those were really after the election was over. So

24 after November 3rd of 2020 is really when I started to follow them, when they were

25 contesting everything.
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1 Q And is there a particular reason why you followed, you know, President

2 Trump's lawyers?

3 A I thought that they had groundbreaking information and that they were

4 going to reveal some great fraud and really just produce some sort of evidence to show

5 us that the election had been stolen.

6 Q So you were following them to see, you know, they might have the latest

7 breaking news on anything they discovered maybe as part of their representation of

8 President Trump.

9 A Yes.

10 Q One quick thing I wanted to ask in terms of TV channels: Did you follow

11 One America News Network, OAN?

12 A Yes, I did. They weren't -- they didn't have an actual channel on DirecTV or

13 DISH Network, so I didn't rely on them more than FOX or Newsmax. But, yes, I did tune

14 in to them sometimes on either their website, their social media page, or on YouTube.

15 think they were demonetized and kicked off of YouTube at one point. So it was more

16 Newsmax and FOX, but, yes, I did tune in to OAN.

17 Q Were there other channels on YouTube that you followed?

18 A Yes. I can't exactly say what they were. Oh. Right -- I think it was

19 Right-Sided Broadcasting Network or something like that.

20 BY

21 Q Was it RSBN? Is that right?

22 A Yes. Yes, that's it.

23 Q What about War Room?

24 A I didn't really go on War Room.

25 Q Okay.
 15

1 A Yeah, I really didn't go on there.

2 BY

3 Q And one final social media site -- or at least I believe it is -- Zella. Did you

4 use that?

5 A I used Zella only between the dates of -- well, really just when I was in D.C.

6 A friend told me to download it in case something happened on the 6th, and then that

7 way we could still talk to and communicate with one another.

8 So that was downloaded on my phone, I want to say, on the 5th or the 4th, and I

9 think I deleted it maybe the 7th or the 8th of January.

10 Q Okay. Thank you.

11 No problem.

12 And we'll touch on that Zella point a little later when we talk about what

13 happened once you arrived or right as you were arriving in D.C., because that sounds like

14 about the time when you downloaded the application.

15 Does anybody else have any questions? -

16 - - c a n I just ask --

17 Yeah, of course.

18 BY

19 Q Did you use Rumble at all? Are you familiar with Rumble?

20 A Rumble, yes.

21 Q Okay.

22 A I'm not -- I don't remember having an account on Rumble. If I did, it was

23 after the election.

24 Q Okay.

25 A Because, at the time, Facebook was -- they were censoring me. I kept
 16

1 getting banned. Either -- I wasn't allowed to advertise, I wasn't allowed to go live, I

2 wasn't allowed to post, I wasn't allowed to share, that sort of thing.

3 So, to the best of my recollection, I can't remember if I had an account, but I was

4 aware of the platform.

5 Q Okay. Thank you.

6 BY

7 Q I guess, generally speaking, on Facebook, when you were having posts taken

8 down or you were not able to have the same type of permissions, do you remember what

9 the posts were that you were putting up that led to that type of response from Facebook?

10 A The first one was related to COVID.

11 Q Okay.

12 A I questioned the integrity of the vaccination, I believe.

13 The second one was due to me sharing a post from somebody that shared

14 something regarding the Proud Boys.

15 Q Got it. And around what time was the Proud Boys post? Do you

16 remember what month it was in that you posted that?

17 A I think it was in December.

18 Q Okay. Okay.

19 So I know you mentioned earlier that you were getting -- you, I guess, collected

20 affidavits, possibly, of possible fraud. Can you just tell us a little bit more about that,

21 who brought you in, what type of affidavits you were looking for, and the time period as

22 well?

23 A Sure. So I was contacted by Kurt. I don't know his last name. As I said

24 in the last interview, it's an Italian last name. He was business partners with Don, Jr.

25 And so I worked with him closely during the prelude up to the election. I would
 17

1 help set up with him and others and with the Secret Service for the Melania event when

2 she came to northeast PA; lvanka; and then for Eric as well; and then, also, for the

3 President when he came to the Wilkes-Barre Scranton airport. So I had his contact

4 information, and he asked if I could come in and help.

5 My job was to come in -- we were collecting affidavits for eight counties total in

6 Pennsylvania. And he had me put on my social media pages, if anybody sighted

7 anything irregular or noticed anything wrong or off, fraudulent, or anything having to do

8 with that, to contact me.

9 So then people would reach out to me. It was my job to vet them and decide

10 whether it was actually fraud or if it was just a discrepancy or if it was just, you know,

11 something silly.

12 And then we had a team of people. We stationed ourselves at the Lackawanna

13 GOP office up in Scranton. And there was a lawyer there from Harvard. I'm not sure

14 what his name was. There was a notary public there as well.

15 And then there was Lance, who was the head of the GOP locally. So he was

16 there to verse me and others in local election laws, what would be considered fraudulent,

17 or, you know, any changes to the acts that our Governor may have done regarding mail-in

18 ballots or absentee voting or anything like that. So there was two new acts that were

19 put in that stick out that he told us about.

20 And then, like I said, really, it was my job to vet these people. So I was just

21 getting inundated with calls. If I felt that it was something that was worth noting, I

22 would bring them in. They would fill out the affidavit. They would sign it in front of

23 the notary. I'm not sure who was funding it, because the people that were coming in

24 didn't have to pay anything to have the notary or anything. And then the lawyer was

25 there to answer any questions for anybody.

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1 We did that for about, I would say, between 3 and 5 days. And then I know that,

2 the one day, Kurt took pictures of everything, sent it to Eric directly. And then it was

3 Kurt's job from that point to drive it to an attorney either in Harrisburg or D.C.

4 And I know that they were also shared with Sean Hannity. And there was a

5 couple of people that did affidavits locally that were actually reached out to by Sean

6 Hannity's secretary or team that either went on or were supposed to go on to discuss

7 their experiences.

8 Q Okay. So it sounds like you were trained about what to look for when

9 finding people to submit affidavits. Is that fair to say?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And it was [inaudible] by Lance. Do you know what Lance's last name is?

12 A Not off the top of my head. And --

13 Q Okay.

14 A -- without my data, it's hard to say.

15 Q No worries. You said he was the --

16 A 1don't have access to that.

17 Q No worries. And you said he was the head of what local GOP group?

18 A Lackawanna County GOP.

19 Q Okay. And approximately how long -- like, what, I guess, time period were

20 you collecting affidavits during?

21 A It was 3 to 5 days. And it was immediately after the election, so I would say

22 November 3rd or 4th it began.

23 Q Uh-huh.

24 A And then it ended within a 5-day period of that.

25 Q Were you paid for this work at all?

 19

1 A No.

2 Q And I guess, just on that last point, how do you know that some of these

3 folks went on Hannity, for example? Were you coordinating it? Or did you hear it,

4 witness it? How did you know?

5 A I witnessed it.

6 Q Okay.

7 A Kurt, the person that texted me, was a direct point of contact with Sean

8 Hannity, who's actually his personal friend. So I witnessed him text him photos of the

9 affidavits, and I witnessed personal conversations that the two of them had had.

10 Q And I might've missed this in your original answer. Why were you brought

11 in to help collect affidavits? So why did they reach out to you, Ms. Howell?

12 A I think they reached out to me mainly because I was just very enthusiastic

13 during the election period and they knew that I was willing to help do whatever. And so

14 I think I verbalized that I was upset about the results of election, and it was insinuated by

15 Kurt, like, "We need to do something. Do you want to come help us?"

16 Q Was the original reach-out via Facebook?

17 A No, it was in text message.

18 Q Via text message. How did you have the contact information, or how did

19 he have your contact information?

20 A We exchanged contact information at one of the events. I'm not sure

21 which one. But, you know, we had been talking back and forth here and there.

22 Q Okay.

23 did you have any followup questions about the

24 affidavits?

25 Yes.
 20

1 BY

2 Q Just a few questions, Ms. Howell.

3 Did you say that, at one point, Kurt, whose last name you don't know, took photos

4 and sent them to someone named Eric?

5 A Yes, he did.

6 Q And which Eric? Or do you know Eric's last name?

7 A Eric Trump.

8 Q Okay. So your understanding is, this person named Kurt took photos of

9 some of the affidavits that you had helped collect and then sent them to Eric Trump?

10 A Yes.

11 Q And do you know what Eric Trump did with the affidavits?

12 A I believe he showed them to his father and also -- I'm not sure if he put them

13 on social media. I don't think he did. But my understanding is that he was to share

14 them with the attorney.

15 Q And do you know why you think he might -- Eric Trump might've showed

16 these affidavits to his dad, Donald Trump?

17 A I believe it was just to show him that people were out on the ground trying

18 to help him prove that there was election fraud and voter fraud.

19 Q Did you otherwise -- did you ever interact with Eric Trump in connection with

20 any of this work in Pennsylvania?

21 A A couple times. There was two events that I was at with him where I had

22 met and engaged with him personally. And then there was one or two conference calls

23 that I was on with him throughout the election period as well.

24 Q Oh. When you were on these conference calls, would this have been, like,

25 after election day?

 21

1 A One was before, I think, and one was after. And there were, you know,

2 others involved too. But, yeah, one was before and one was after, I know.

3 Q For the conference call with Eric Trump before election day, do you recall

4 what that call was about?

5 A I think it was just getting boots on the ground, marketing strategies, and,

6 like, the upcoming event where -- I forget if it was going to be him or if it was the lvanka

7 event, but one of them -- I believe it was the biker event that we did. It was kind of a

8 makeshift event at the Wyoming Valley Mall in Wilkes-Barre that a group of people that I

9 would, you know, associate with organized, and he was kind of a surprise. And so it was

10 kind of, like, a makeshift thing, and he came in on the fly, sort of, for us, for that event.

11 Q Do you have any sense of when before it was election day? Was this, like,

12 months before or maybe just weeks or days?

13 A I think it was days before, make weeks before. I think it was sometime in

14 October.

15 Q And when you said "get boots on the ground," would that be boots on the

16 ground for, like, election day in Pennsylvania?

17 A That was just really their terminology that they used to make sure that

18 everyone was out, kind of, marketing and door-knocking and pushing for our candidate.

19 Q And then for the conference call after election day, do you remember what

20 that call was about?

21 A That was about election fraud. And it also had something to do with Teddy

22 Daniels, who was going to be running for a seat in Congress in Pennsylvania.

23 Q And when you say "about election fraud," was it what -- was Eric relaying

24 what the campaign had seen or maybe giving examples of what election fraud could look

25 like?
 22

1 A He was giving updates, more or less, of what had been submitted, how many

2 affidavits had been collected.

3 And he was sharing with us also a -- it was a call center type of thing that he had

4 set up. I don't remember if it was, like, an 800 number, but there was a flyer that was

5 made, "If you witnessed election fraud or irregularities, contact this number." So it was

6 kind of, like, a hotline.

7 So he was sharing with us how to share that and use that resource and, again, just

8 kind of going down the numbers of how many affidavits were collected and any updates

9 that they had with their legal team.

10 Q So is it your understanding Eric Trump was involved with the Trump

11 campaign and efforts to maybe identify potential election fraud or irregularities that

12 happened in the 2020 election in Pennsylvania?

13 A Yes. It's my understanding he set up that hotline specifically for

14 Pennsylvania.

15 Q I know, at one point in November, Kayleigh McEnany went on FOX News,

16 and I believe it was Sean Hannity's show, and she had in her hands a bunch of affidavits.

17 Is that what you were talking about where there were affidavits that were shown on Sean

18 Hannity's show, or is this a different time?

19 A I believe it's a different time, but they were the same affidavits -- I mean, the

20 same form. So I believe Eric's lawyer -- I don't know if he was based out of Harrisburg or

21 D.C. at the time -- he's the one that forwarded that particular affidavit to everyone to use,

22 centralized kind of.

23 But, no, the ones that I'm talking about, I'm not sure if they ever did make it onto

24 Hannity. I know that there were some other people that were contacted by Hannity's

25 staff to come onto the show. I know that one reached out to me personally and said
 23

1 that she was supposed to go on and then something happened, it didn't happen. But,

2 yeah, I know that the ones I personally collected or helped collect were forwarded

3 directly to Hannity.

4 Q And, Ms. Howell, was this the first time that you had ever collected affidavits

5 in connection with any election?

6 A Yes.

7 Q And did you personally witness any potential election fraud or irregularities

8 on election day in Pennsylvania?

9 A No.

10 Q I think you mentioned earlier that you gave a phone number on social media

11 for people to contact you if they saw, you know, potential election fraud irregularities.

12 Is that right?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Was that your personal phone number that you gave out?

15 A Yes, my personal number.

16 Q And did you ever receive, like, an email address to use in connection with

17 this effort or a separate phone number to use, or did you just use your personal --

18 A No.

19 Q -- contact information?

20 A I used my personal email and my personal phone number and then my

21 personal Facebook too.

22 Q And did you receive any, like, materials, maybe, like, guidance documents or

23 anything like that, in connection with this affidavit collection effort?

24 A No. No. It was just written testimony from the people.

25 Q And I know you mentioned that some of this effort took place at a GOP
 24

1 office. I believe you said Lackawanna County. Is that right?

2 A Yes. Lackawanna County, Scranton, Pennsylvania.

3 Q Is it your understanding that this effort was, like, maybe part of a broader

4 GOP effort or the Trump campaign, to the extent you can make any sort of distinction

5 between the two?

6 A I can't say. I wouldn't be able to distinguish between the two. I think it

7 was a joint effort.

8 Q I'll ask you this. For the affidavits, do you recall if the potential fraud, like,

9 concerned specifically, like, Presidential -- like, fraud connected to the Presidential

10 election or maybe other races that occurred in Pennsylvania for maybe, like, State

11 legislators or representatives?

12 A It seemed like it was either a Democrat or Republican thing; it wasn't

13 specifically targeted to just the President, for the ones that I collected.

14 Q Okay.

15 That's it for me. Thank you.

16 BY
17 Q I wanted to go back just to -- was the Lance that you were referring to, is it

18 Mr. Lance Stange, Jr., or Stange, S-t-a-n-g-e?

19 A That sounds familiar.

20 Q Okay.

21 A Yeah.

22 Q And, also, I guess we're in, what, January of 2022. So you did this affidavit

23 exercise back in November of 2020. How do you feel now, sitting here today, about

24 your efforts to collect affidavits back after the general election?

25 A Foolish.
 25

1 Q Just describe -- can you tell us why?

2 A It was a learning experience. I definitely have learned a lot about election

3 law, so I'm grateful for that. But in terms of how I feel today, I feel foolish and feel used.

4 Q Why do you feel used? Like, just help us understand that.

5 A Why do I feel used? I feel used because I was promised things that, you

6 know, never were really going to happen, I was told things that never really happened.

7 And I have been pretty public about this. I personally did not witness any fraud

8 occur. The affidavits that I did collect, there really weren't many. I can't give an exact

9 number of them, but there weren't that many.

10 And the ones that I did collect, I would say that they were just discrepancies

11 where I think it was just human error. Or, you know, a problem in Pennsylvania that we

12 have is that not every voting location is consistent with the other.

13 Q Uh-huh.

14 A You know, so some places you go and, you know, it's all electronic; in other

15 places you go, they still use a registry.

16 So I think that, for me, you know, I just feel lied to. And I never saw any proof of

17 actual fraud, even after collecting the affidavits, because everything seemed like a human

18 error or a standalone incident.

19 Q And we might get into this a little later regarding former President Trump,

20 but who do you feel lied to you, and why do you feel lied to?

21 A I feel lied to by President Trump, obviously, because he started in with the

22 election fraud way before it happened and used the COVID thing.

23 I feel lied to about COVID. We were led to believe that it was fake and that it

24 was just being used to sway the election results.

25 I feel lied to about the vaccine because I was told not to get one, that it would
 26

1 either make me fertile or make me sick or kill me.

2 And also by his attorneys and by Scavino and all of them, because they kept going

3 on TV or social media saying that there was proof, and we never saw any proof. There

4 was never any proof given to us.

5 And then Scavino, in particular, because he was going on social media daily saying,

6 wait for the storm, the storm is coming, and kind of, like, preluding to something big that

7 was going to happen, making us all believe that something was going to happen or

8 something big was going to develop or, you know, somebody was going to prove

9 something. So --

10 Q And so, at this time, just trying to get back in your mindset, you were under

11 the impression that there was, like, a big story that would eventually come our. Is that

12 right? Is that fair to say?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And how long did you kind of hang on to this hope of, like, the storm is

15 coming? How long did you hang on to it?

16 A Really until, I would stay, mid- to late December. I kind of knew by

17 Christmas it wasn't going to happen, but there was maybe, like, a small piece of me, 10

18 percent of me maybe, that held on to it.

19 Q And did you --

20 A And then --

21 Q Sorry.

22 A -- after January 6th, of course, that all went away.

23 Q So we'll get into that probably as we -- so we're going to move now into, like,

24 your decision to go to D.C. for January 6th. And we'll start -- I'll throw in questions like

25 that throughout, like, what were you thinking at the time and then how do you feel about
 27

1 it now, because it's important. It sounds like your understanding kind of matured, right,

2 into December and now post-January 6th, so I just want to make sure we are able to

3 capture your feelings at each point, if that makes sense.

4 A Yeah.

5 Q Okay.

6 So, before we even get to that, though, there are a few individuals I just want to

7 throw out there to see if you had any communications with them or worked with them or

8 knew of them in Pennsylvania.

9 Sean Moon?

10 A Who is it?

11 Q Sean Moon?

12 A I don't think so, unless --

13 Q And it's okay --

14 A -- he was with the Loudmouth Majority in New York.

15 Q I don't believe so, no.

16 A Okay. Then no.

17 Q Okay. And if you don't know them, that's okay.

18 Andy Walker?

19 A No.

20 Q Charles Bausman?

21 A I don't think so.

22 Q Okay. State Senator Doug Mastriano?

23 A Yes.

24 Q What was your interactions -- or, I guess, just tell us more about how you

25 knew of him around this time period.

 28

1 A I just -- I knew of him from events that we both attended where we would

2 talk here and there. And then there was a girl that lived close by, she also lived in

3 Swoyersville; she worked for him. And she was a singer, and we did a lot of events

4 together. She was primarily with, like, the Bikers for Trump stuff. But she worked in

5 Doug's office. So that was kind of my link with him.

6 And then there was another person that was, like, a direct contact of mine that he

7 and I shared. So, when I was with her at events, they would be talking and I would be

8 present.

9 Q Okay. And what was your impression of Senator Mastriano when it came

10 to "Stop the Steal" efforts, if you had any?

11 A He was very involved. My understanding is he was there -- he was in D.C.

12 on the 6th. I'm not sure if he went inside. But he was very present on social media

13 with live videos and updates and things of that nature. And a lot of people locally

14 admired him and I'll even say worshipped him. They believed in him, and they believed

15 that he was loyal to the President.

16 Q So, in Pennsylvania, where you live, would you consider Senator Mastriano

17 during this time kind of influential for driving some of the beliefs you all might have had?

18 A Yes?

19 Q Okay.

20 What about State Representative Scott Perry? Same question.

21 A I don't remember that name. So, for me, no.

22 Q Okay. Okay.

23 What about the Lancaster, PA for Free and Fair Elections Facebook group? Do

24 you recall that group?

25 A I'm sorry?
 29

1 Q The Lancaster, PA for Free and Fair Elections Facebook group. Are you

2 familiar with that Facebook group?

3 A Lancaster. I may have been in it.

4 Q Okay.

5 A It's possible. I was in a lot of them. But --

6 Q Right.

7 A -- it doesn't ring a bell.

8 Q Okay.

9 And what about the National Justice Party? Does --

10 A No.

11 Q -- that ring a bell? Okay.

12 do you all have any followup of --

13 I have two --

14 -- people or organizations?

15 - -- two quickly, if I can.

16 BY
17 Q Just to revisit Sean Moon, he was Pastor Sean Moon. He led a church in

18 the area. I don't know if that rings a bell at all.

19 A Oh, he led a church? If I followed him --

20 Q Okay.

21 A I mean, I'm sorry, I just --

22 Q No problem.

23 A There's so many people that I came into interaction with, and it's kind of

24 going back a year and a half now.

25 Q Completely understand. There were --

 30

1 A But if there's anything -- I didn't have a personal relationship with him.

2 Q Okay. That's fine.

3 And one other group, the Patriot Party. Does that ring a bell at all?

4 A Yeah, that rings a bell. I think I was on Facebook on that group.

5 Q Okay. Was that something Pennsylvania-specific, or was that a national

6 Facebook page?

7 A I think it was national.

8 Q Okay. Thank you.

9 BY

10 Q Ms. Howell, you mentioned -- I think it was a specific message or a post from

11 Dan Scavino about to wait for the storm. My understanding is that kind of imagery is

12 also associated with QAnon. Is that your understanding as well?

13 A Yes. Yes.

14 Q I guess, during the 2020 election, to get, kind of, election-related news, did

15 you also follow, maybe, users who you understood to be, like, followers or proponents of

16 QAnon?

17 A I wasn't really into QAnon. I really didn't like QAnon. I thought that they

18 were outlandish. But a lot of people in my circle did. There was some stuff that I

19 watched. But, yeah, to be honest, no, QAnon wasn't really a thing for me. I tried it;

20 didn't really vibe with me.

21 Q Okay. But at least for "wait for the storm," you would recognize that to be

22 something that was a common phrase with QAnon followers --

23 A Yes.

24 Q -- I guess you would say? Okay.

25 A Yes.
 31

1 Q And one thing, I apologize, I forgot to ask earlier about the affidavits. Did

2 you have an understanding as to how they might be used by the Trump campaign?

3 A All that I saw or was told was that, if we collect enough, they're not going to

4 be able to ignore them. I wasn't told the process. I wasn't told how it would work.

5 But my understanding was, if they have enough, they wouldn't be able to ignore them,

6 they were going to go to the media with them, and then hopefully judges would look at

7 them.

8 Q So your understanding is they could've been used in litigation or at least to

9 show to the public, look what's happening.

10 A Yes.

11 Q Okay. Thank you.

12 A You're welcome. Thank you.

13 BY

14 Q Ms. Howell, moving more towards the rallies in D.C., did you attend a

15 November 14th rally in Washington, D.C.?

16 A No. I was supposed to,

17 Q Gotcha. So you were following this rally?

18 A I was, yes, from home.

19 Q Did you watch it on social media or anything like that?

20 A I don't think so. I was watching it after the fact, because I was doing a lot

21 of sleeping. But, yeah, I was watching it after. And that was

22 actually when I shared that post, I think, of the Proud Boys --

23 Q Got it.

24 A -- when they were marching. That's one of the times I think I got -- my

25 account was disabled or I was limited.

 32

1 Q Were there any speakers in particular that made you want to come to the

2 rally in D.C. to hear?

3 A No, not in particular.

4 Q Okay. So I guess, like, a question was -- I know you said you were planning

5 to come. Why were you planning, what made you excited to come to D.C. for the

6 November 14th rally?

7 A Just other people that were kind of in my circle from my area that wanted to

8 go that either didn't drive or expressed interest and kind of got everyone excited about it.

9 And so it was kind of just, like, something that they had gotten excited about.

10 And the way that it was represented to me was, we have to go march to save our

11 country, to save the electoral process and free and fair elections.

12 Q Okay. What did you take "save the country" to mean? Like, what did you

13 think? Like, just help us understand what saving the country meant to you at that time.

14 A To me, it really just meant to make sure that the Constitution was still in

15 effect and that there was integrity and that there was trust within our system to where I

16 can be confident that, if I go vote, that my vote will be heard and that it's not a waste of

17 time.

18 And, really, at the time, my mindset, based on what I was watching and what I was

19 being told and influences around me, was that our government was going from kind of,

20 like, a capitalism to socialism.

21 Q Gotcha.

22 A And so I really, really thought at the time that that's what was happening.

23 And so I wanted to help prevent that and, like, as I said, secure the integrity of the

24 Constitution.

25 Q And did you go -- or did you hear about or go to the December 12th rally in
 33

1 Washington, D.C.?

2 A I heard about it. I didn't go.

3 Q Okay. Okay. For the same reason? Or why didn't you go? Did you

4 want to go to the December 12th rally?

5 A I wanted to go. I don't remember why I didn't go.

6 Q Okay.

7 A I'm trying to think --

8 Q How did you hear about these rallies, if you remember?

9 A Locally. A lot of it was just groups on Face book that I was in or people in

10 my circle around me that told me about them --

11 Q So local --

12 A -- like, at the Republican office or our local GOP.

13 Q So it sounds like it was a combination of local, actual direct conversations.

14 And then, when you meant "local," you meant, like, local groups you might have been

15 affiliated with on Facebook and other social media networks? Is that fair --

16 A Right.

17 Q -- to say?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Okay.

-
20 So, moving towards January 6th, you did --

21

22 Yes? Sorry.

23 Can I ask one followup question, if I may?

24 Yes.

25 BY
 34

1 Q Did you attend any local "Stop the Steal" events in Pennsylvania? I know

2 that there were rallies in that area. I think the Tommy Gun Warehouse, for example,

3 there was -- some of the ones --

4 A I'm sorry, what was your question?

5 Q Did you attend any local "Stop the Steal" rallies? I know there were ones,

6 for instance, outside of Bryan Cutler's home, at the Tommy Gun Warehouse. Did you

7 attend any local Pennsylvania ones?

8 A Yes. Yes.

9 Q Okay.

10 A We had a "Back the Blue" rally, and then we had a "Stop the Steal" rally.

11 That's the one where Eric Trump came to the mall, where we did that kind of, like,

12 improve appearance. And that was hosted by an in-PA Men and Women for Trump,

13 which was a group that I was heavily involved in, and then Bikers for Trump.

14 Q Thank you.

15 A Uh-huh.

16 When was the "Stop the Steal" rally, if you remember?

17 - - I have one quick followup --

18 Oh, sorry. Did someone else have a question?

19 - Yeah, if you don't mind.

20 Ms. Howell. Yeah, it was kind of, like, "Stop the Steal" and Bikers for Trump.

21 BY

22 Q Ms. Howell, you mentioned a little -- some content that you had posted to

23 Facebook that you think led Facebook to moderate you that was related to the Proud

24 Boys. Do you remember what that content was?

25 A It was a personal video that one of the Proud Boys shared on their Face book
 35

1 page. It was a live video, I want to say, that I screen-recorded and then shared. But it

2 was of the march, I want to stay, December 12th that took place in D.C. And it was

3 them basically just saying, you know, "This is our country. You're not going to steal the

4 election," that sort of thing.

5 And I do know that parts of it were graphic, and so my writing -- it was them

6 clashing with what they said was antifa. It was people dressed all in black wearing

7 tactical gear. And so my impression of the video was they were being attacked by

8 antifa. And so I was sharing, like, our Proud Boys are down there marching, you know,

9 trying to defend our Constitution and election integrity and they're being attacked.

10 And that's sort of the context of what it was. And that's when I was -- no, no, I

11 think it was, like, a 30-day ban for that.

12 Q Okay. And do you remember who had posted that video?

13 A Who posted it? I don't. I got it from one of the groups that I was in,

14 which it was, like -- some of the bigger groups that I was in was Trump -- I'm sorry. The

15 government has my data. I can't remember all of it completely. But there was

16 probably, like, 16 or 17 different Trump groups, group-specific, of things that I was in.

17 And it was kind of, like, just America or USA for Trump or Trump for President 2020,

18 things like that.

19 So I got it from one of those groups, screen-recorded it, and shared it on my

20 personal page.

21 Q Okay.

22 And do you remember any particular members of the Proud Boys that you

23 might've followed or Proud Boys-associated groups?

24 A No. I mean, I was in -- like, I was in person with them on January 6th

25 through a contact from Facebook, but, prior to that, I didn't personally follow any of
 36

1 them.

2 Q Okay. Thank you.

3 BY

4 Q So, Ms. Howell, getting to January 6th, tell us about the factors that

5 influenced your decision to want to come to D.C. for January 6th.

6 A For me, I made a commitment to a group of people that either couldn't drive

7 or had a health issue or didn't drive, and so -- as also in conjunction with the fact that I

8 was sick during the last march and wanted to be there, I agreed to come, and after

9 making that commitment, I felt like I should keep it, really.

10 But, for me, in the end, it was wanting to see the President one last time speak

11 and be there for that. And I felt like that was going to be a part of history that, you

12 know, I should be present for. I wasn't sure when I'd be able to see a President up close

13 in person again.

14 Q When did you first become aware, if you remember, that there was going to

15 be a rally in D.C. on January 6th?

16 A Maybe a month before that. It was via the President himself. I know that

17 there was talks about it. "Stop the Steal," that group had started, like, an event page

18 where you could say you were going or not going, and that was being shared, like, a lot on

19 Face book.

20 But, for me, the time that sticks out is when President Trump tweeted or put on

21 Facebook, "Come on January 6th, it's going to be huge," whatever he said. "You won't

22 want to miss it."

23 Q Was it the one where he said, "It's going to be wild"?

24 A "It's going to be wild." I think he said, "It's going to be wild."

25 Q Okay. So at that moment is when you kind of decided mentally --

 37

1 A I should be there.

2 Q -- "I want to go to D.C."? Okay.

3 It sounds like you were following President Trump about January 6th on Twitter.

4 Were there any other social media apps or websites that you were tracking January 6th

5 updates?

6 A Maybe Face book. A lot of my social media stuff was done on Face book

7 mainly.

8 Q And were there any specific people that you were following? Sounds like

9 "Stop the Steal," but were there any other groups or people you were following about

10 updates related to January 6th and that rally?

11 A Just the groups that I mentioned before this and then --

12 Q Okay.

13 A -- of course, the people that I mentioned before this too. A lot of those

14 local people that would share and I would reshare, or I would get information from these

15 groups and then share that too. But a lot of my information was coming directly from

16 these Facebook groups and any ones that had "Trump" in the tag.

17 Q Okay.

18 Did you do anything to promote, you know, the rally in D.C. on January 6th,

19 whether it be on social media or your local community? Were you involved in any of

20 those efforts?

21 A I promoted it, yeah.

22 Q Tell us, explain to us how you promoted the January 6th rally.

23 A Just through social media and word of mouth, really.

24 Q Were you taking direction from anyone in order to promote it, or were you

25 just doing it on your own?

 38

1 A Things in particular, like, organize buses and things like that, I was taking

2 some other people, or they were asking me to help them. But as far as the rest of it

3 goes, I was kind of doing it on my own, in terms of trying to get people down there.

4 Q So tell us about -- you just mentioned buses. Tell us a little bit about that.

5 Like, what buses are you discussing or describing, and what did you do to help organize

6 it?

7 A There were buses that were being funded by somebody personally that were

8 leaving from Jessup, which is in Pennsylvania, Lackawanna County. And so, because I

9 had such a large following on social media and Facebook in particular, I was asked to

10 share and make flyers for that, to share that with groups that I was in or share it with

11 people that I knew, to try to get more buses of people to go down to the event on the

12 6th.

13 Q Who was organizing the -- can we get a name? Who was organizing the

14 buses that looped you in?

15 A Frank Scavo.

16 Q Okay. Who is Mr. -- did you know Mr. Scavo before this?

17 A I met -- no. I met him, I want to say, 2 months before the election,

18 probably in September or October.

19 Q And who was Mr. -- who is Mr. Scavo, just briefly, in Pennsylvania? Who is

20 he?

21 A He's a former school board administrator or director. And then I know that

22 he's ran for State representative positions or seats, cabinet seats, locally. I don't think

23 he was ever successful in winning. I believe he sat on Luzerne County Council or at least

24 ran.

25 He reached out to me about wanting me to run for Luzerne County Council. And
 39

1 he was just kind of in my inner circle. He was heavily involved, too. So we kind of just

2 crossed paths often because of the people that we were both associating with.

3 So I want to say the first time I met him was at the Kingston Republican office

4 either during the Vice President or Presidential debate. And then I also -- the first time I

5 remember talking to him, really, was when that couple who defended their house with an

6 AR, who -- yeah, they got disbarred, lost their law license, and everything or

7 whatever -- they came on a Trump bus to the Kingston office. And so we met them

8 personally. And then Rudy Giuliani came next on a Trump bus. And I remember

9 talking to him there.

10 So, at some point, we exchanged phone numbers, and I think that was mainly

11 because I did graphic design work and I could help with flyers and things like that. So I

12 think that's how our contacts got exchanged.

13 Q So was Mr. Scavo actually organizing the bus trips from Pennsylvania to D.C.?

14 A Yes. And I believe he did it for December 12th too.

15 Q Gotcha. And do you know if individuals that took the buses that were

16 organized by Mr. Scavo had to pay, or were they free?

17 A They were free.

18 Q Do you know who was paying for the buses?

19 A My understanding was Frank was. Frank Scavo.

20 Q And, again, I think the buses were leaving from Jessup, Pennsylvania?

21 A Yes.

22 Q I guess, in general, did any elected officials in particular, other than President

23 Trump, did they impact your desire to want to come to Washington, D.C., for the rally?

24 So any Congressmen or Senators, did they influence your decision to want to come?

25 A Doug Mastriano did. And then the other one was -- oh, God -- Dan -- I can't
 40

1 remember these people's names anymore. He's still a -- he's still in Congress. He was

2 there on January 6th.

3 Q Okay.

4 A Dan --

5 Q Crenshaw?

6 A What was it?

7 Q Crenshaw? Did he have -- is that --

8 A No.

9 Q No? Okay.

10 A No. He's local.

11 Q Oh, okay. Local Pennsylvania --

12 A I had his personal phone number. There was even pictures of, like, him and

13 his wife and my child on social media, and we joked about using it for, like, his next -- his

14 last name starts with an M.

15 Q Okay.

16 A I said it last interview.

17 Dan Meuser, M-e-u-s-e-r?

18 Ms. Howell. Meuser. That's it. Yeah. Dan Meuser.

19 Thank you.

20 Ms. Howell. So it was him. Yeah.

21 BY
22 Q And this is kind of philosophical, but just bear with me a little bit I guess.

23 What was your goal, like, your goal personally, in traveling to Washington, D.C., for

24 January 6th?

25 A My goal personally was to get the people that I promised, you know, there
 41

1 there --

2 Q Uh-huh.

3 A -- and to see the President.

4 Also, my ex had sent me with bracelets to sell that said "Trump 2020," so I was

5 there to sell those.

6 And, really, I just wanted to be witness. And, like I said, there was still, like,

7 maybe a 10 percent part of me that believed something could happen, you know, in

8 terms of overturning the results.

9 Q Got it.

10 did you have any followup before I move into

11 logistics?

12 Yes.

13 BY

14 Q Ms. Powell, you said you "believed something could happen." Is that a

15 reference to what was happening in Congress that day on January 6th?

16 A Yes. Meaning that we thought that there was a small chance that the Vice

17 President wouldn't certify the results, that some development would be made or

18 evidence would be produced.

19 Q And is that something that you thought you potentially could witness or, you

20 know, the crowd maybe could have an impact on by showing support?

21 A Both. I thought that maybe the crowd or the size of the crowd there would

22 influence, I guess, the Vice President's overall decision or the overall, I guess, you know,

23 importance of -- I think I thought that, you know, seeing a large presence of people there

24 would influence them to do the right thing at the time I thought would be. You know

25 what I mean? So I thought that if there was evidence or if there was a chance of it being
 42

1 overturned, you know, a crowd being there expressing their distress or being upset would

2 help.
 43

2 [2:00 p.m.]

3 BY

4 Q Now, I heard you use the phrase, "Do the right thing." And I recall that's

5 language that President Trump used a lot during the election in reference to Vice

6 President Pence and what he thought maybe Vice President Pence could do in Congress.

7 Is that kind of the language -- where you might have picked up that language?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And in terms of January 6th and what was going on in Congress, like I'll tell

10 you, I wasn't super familiar before this election about the significance potentially of that

11 day. How did you learn about what happens in Congress on January 6th?

12 A I did my own research on previous vice presidents certifying the election, so I

13 looked at YouTube videos of President -- Vice President Biden in 2020 certifying them,

14 and then I went back to -- or maybe that was '16, but I went back before that and looked

15 at that one, too.

16 So I was educating myself through the past. And then I was reading about

17 different amendments in the Constitution and making myself knowledgeable of the

18 Constitution and what acts he could enact, or what rules or whatever, you know,

19 language or terminology he could pull from the Constitution to not certify.

20 And then I remember the 25th Amendment was a big thing too, them talking

21 about that being invoked to possibly -- and I think that was -- it's been a year and a half,

22 but I think that was either to have President Trump remove the Vice President, or the

23 Vice President remove President Trump. I can't remember which one it was, but people

24 were talking about the 25th Amendment.

25 Q Did you hear about the 12th amendment? Do you recall that's one that
 44

1 sometimes was floated around too?

2 A Yeah. People were talking about the 12th Amendment too.

3 Q And for -- because, you know, this is kind of deep into constitutional law.

4 Did you also look at Trump's lawyers on what was potentially possible for January 6th?

5 A Yes. Yes. So we highly -- or heavily depended on what they were telling

6 us in terms of what the laws stipulated in terms of the Constitution was able to be done.

7 Q Did you see January 6th as potentially like the last effort to maybe have

8 Trump win the election, like in terms of steps?

9 A Yeah, I did.

10 Q Okay. I think that's all for me. Thank you.

11 BY

12 Q Perfect. So when did you leave Pennsylvania for Washington, D.C.?

13 A I think it was January 4th or 5th, January 4th, I want to say, because we got

14 there at night and then did some sightseeing. Yeah, I think it was January 4th we were

15 there for like a day and a half.

16 Q So you went sightseeing on January 5th?

17 A On January 4th, when we first arrived, it was probably around -- I know it

18 had just gotten dark kind of, so it was between the hours of like 6:00 and 7:00. It was

19 before curfew. I know the D.C. Mayor enacted a curfew at 8:00 p.m., so it was prior to

20 that.

21 And I know that when we first go there, one of the people in the car had gotten

22 the notification that one of the Proud Boys had been arrested upon entering the city

23 based -- or for something happening on December 12th. So it was right around that

24 time that I got there. So we got there, checked in, got settled into our hotel, and then

25 we walked around sightseeing, and then we were back by curfew.

 45

1 Q Was the Proud Boy that was arrested that you were referencing, Mr. Enrique

2 Tarrio?

3 A Yes, Mr. Enrique, yep.

4 Q How did you get to D.C.? Was it by car? Train? Bus?

5 A My personal car.

6 Q Okay. And do you remember where you stayed? Did you stay in the city,

7 or did you stay in like Virginia or Maryland?

8 A We stayed in the city downtown. It was right next to the FEMA building,

9 and I think it was the Holiday Inn.

10 Q Okay. And how many friends did you come down with? I know -- I think

11 you said you came down with a couple friends. Approximately how many?

12 A Three others, so there's four total in the car.

13 Q As you all were traveling and arriving in the city before the events on

14 January 5th and 6th, I guess, what was your expectation what the events would be like?

15 A I mean, I didn't really have expectations. I thought that if something did

16 happen, it was going to be with antifa. We didn't really know, but we were nervous, I

17 know, because me and the other two girls that I had come with, we talked about like a

18 plan and if we got lost or separated, and we also made a decision to always travel in

19 groups those couple of days. But I know that for me the only thing that really stood out

20 was we were excited to see the President, we didn't know what to expect, and we were

21 cautious about antifa.

22 Q So on January 4th, right, so I want you to, if you can, parse it out to that day.

23 Were you planning to go to the Capitol Building after the rally on January 6th as well at

24 that time?

25 A No.
 46

1 Q Okay. Were you aware that people might be going to the Capitol Building

2 after the rally at this time?

3 A No.

4 Q You also just mentioned that you were preparing or kind of mentally thinking

5 about possible violence. Or I don't want to put words in your mouth. Were you

6 expecting there to be possible violence on January 6th?

7 A Not just the 6th, but our entire trip there. And like I said, the only violence

8 that we expected was from like a clashing group, like antifa, or possibly BLM.

9 Q Were you preparing any kind of way to, I guess, protect yourself from the

10 possible counter protest violence?

11 A I personally wasn't, but, I mean, the people that I brought down, we had a

12 Facebook message where the one individual, Corey, was talking about his tactical gear

13 and bail money and things like that, and kind of just telling us what he was bringing and

14 that sort of thing. But the rest of us weren't really prepared.

15 Q Was this part of the reason why you downloaded the Zella app that you

16 mentioned earlier?

17 A Zella I downloaded because of a contact, she was from Texas. I met her

18 through Face book, but she -- you know, I considered her a friend. Her name was Jen.

19 She told me to download it because we might lose service, our cell reception. We

20 weren't sure what was going to happen.

21 And I thought that that was feasible because in past events that I went to where

22 the President was there, I don't know if it's the NSA or whoever does it, or if this is even

23 true, but I know that there was interference with our signals. So either we weren't

24 allowed to go live on Facebook, we weren't allowed to make calls, or our messages

25 weren't going through. So I thought that, you know, there was a potential that we could
 47

1 lose service.

2 Q Do you remember the name of the Zella channel that you were on?

3 A I don't. It was a random one. She gave it to me, whichever one it was.

4 Q What about --

5 A But I can't remember if it was, like, a private one where it was just her and I,

6 or if it was like a main thing. I think it might have been private between her and I.

7 Q Let me know, does Stop the Steal J6 sound familiar to you?

8 A No.

9 Q If not, it's okay. Okay.

10 A I can't -- I can't say. I think she was the only person I had on there.

11 Q Okay. So it sounds like you got here on the 4th. Did you go to any of the

12 ra Ilies on the 5th?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Which ones did you attend, if you remember?

15 A It was on the square. It was kind of over by the Ellipse where the, you

16 know, the thing was the next day. So we walked over there early. There was a bunch

17 of people from the hotel that were standing outside smoking cigarettes and stuff. So I

18 asked them, do you guys want to walk over with us? We took some pictures on the way

19 over, and, again, that reasoning was let's travel in groups.

20 We were there most of the day. Then we went back, ordered food. I went to a

21 block party later in the day. But back to that event, there was key speakers there.

22 There was people singing. Some of them were religious, I want to say. And then,

23 there was people selling merchandise, you know, on that square, wherever that was.

24 And that was pretty much it. I forget how long that was. I want to say it was

25 like -- took up most of the day.

 48

1 Q Was the square your -- was it at Freedom Plaza? Does that ring a bell?

2 A Yeah, the Plaza.

3 Q Do you recall any --

4 A Is that what you said?

5 Q Yep, I said the Plaza. Do you recall any speakers from that January 5th rally

6 that you witnessed?

7 A I know that there were several. I don't know any by name at this point in

8 time. I remember maybe two or three singers, and then there was probably about five

9 speakers.

10 Q What was -- just describe for us the general environment, like what did it

11 feel like out there on January 5th?

12 A A lot of people were hopeful. A lot of people seemed very patriotic to me.

13 People had American flags. They were playing the Star-Spangled Banner between

14 speakers, things like that. There were points in time where people seemed a little bit

15 angry when the speakers were talking about election fraud or, you know, whatever was

16 being talked about at the time. But overall, it -- to me, it was kind of a happy

17 environment. There were people drinking. I was drinking that day. We were really

18 just having a good time.

19 Q When you say hopeful, just help us -- I think you might have mentioned it,

20 but what were you all hopeful for?

21 A That something would happen with the Vice President in hopefully -- or

22 Trump's legal team presenting some sort of evidence or the Vice President not certifying

23 the election results.

24 Q Got it. Okay.

25 Let's see. I'm about to turn to January 6th. Did you have any other questions
 49

1 about January 5th,

2 Okay. So walk us through kind of like the morning of January 6th. Did you

3 attend the rally at the Ellipse?

4 A Yes. So on the 6th, we all woke up super early and got in line. So I want

5 to say, we woke up at like 3:30, 4:00 in the morning. Our -- the one person that came

6 down with us, Corey, he was already gone before we even left, but, again, we walked

7 over with a group of people.

8 I then met up with contacts from Facebook and various other, you know, people

9 that we had been talking to throughout our time there. We got in line. We were

10 taking pictures. There was a point in time that I left the line to go look at some of the

11 landmarks. We went and walked over to the Lincoln monument, took pictures, took

12 pictures in front of the Washington Monument, came back to the line, went through

13 security. So we were there from like -- in line from like 4:00 a.m., and I think the doors

14 opened around 11:00, I want to say, went through security, and then just our regular

15 stuff. We'd walk around, talk to people inside the event.

16 I remember leaving a couple minutes early when Trump was speaking, probably

17 about 20 minutes early just because of the size of the crowd. The person I was standing

18 next to said we're never going to get out of here, and I had to go to the bathroom

19 because I had been there since 4:00 a.m. He said, we're never going to get out of here.

20 Let's leave now.

21 So him and I walked back to our hotel. We took the people with us that came

22 with him, which wound up being two Proud Boys, his uncle and another female. Myself,

23 the female, and her boyfriend went up to my room to use the bathroom. I then

24 changed my clothes, put something warmer on, got something to eat.

25 There was a whole itinerary, like a flyer of things and key speakers that were
 50

1 supposed to go on that day. So we were kind of like waiting around for everybody else

2 that we knew to tell us where they were going to go. And during that time, Brian was

3 the one that was like, something is going on at the Capitol. We have to go over there

4 now. And during that time, the two guys that he brought down and his uncle ran over

5 there. And so he, myself, and the girl then walked over to the Capitol.

6 And I remember at that point was the shift in atmosphere, I remember, because

7 they said that President -- or Vice President Pence had not -- not certified the election,

8 and so people at that point seemed very angry towards him. And I remember the

9 seeing the gallows at that point and a guy dressed up in, like, revolutionary attire, walk

10 through the fountain and that sort of thing. And by the time that we got to the Capitol

11 Building, it had already been infiltrated. There was people climbing on statues and all

12 over the place.

13 Q Gotcha. So let's break that down a little bit. So you get to the Ellipse.

14 Around what time did you get there again?

15 A Like 4:00 a.m., 4:00, 4:30 a.m.

16 Q Why did you feel the need to get there so early?

17 A Because of past events. Even working past events, I just knew the crowd,

18 you know. We saw the crowd. We knew -- we had expectations of a long line, so we

19 wanted to sit as close as possible. Now, that didn't wind up mattering because the

20 person that I went down with had press credentials and all this other stuff, and he

21 somehow infiltrated his way in and was able to seat people. So he wound up moving

22 me and Brian closer, so I wound up sitting three rows behind the President.

23 Q Okay. So you were like in the seated section of the Ellipse?

24 A Yeah, I was dead center, right in front of the President, three rows back.

25 Q What was the general environment like for the January 6th throughout the
 51

1 Ellipse, like what was the mood?

2 A I mean, I think people were overall happy, like I said, hopeful. But once the

3 speakers came out, for me at least, I felt like -- I don't know, I felt like people were getting

4 angry because of the way that the speakers were talking. They were very abrasive.

5 They were very combative. They were very accusatory.

6 Q Accusatory about what, or combative about what, if you recall?

7 A Fraud.

8 Q Okay.

9 A Fraud, deception. Whatever was going on, they were accusing liberals and

10 the Democrats and, you know, that sort of thing. So I just remember Don Jr., being

11 really angry, Rudy Giuliani being really angry, and -- yeah, I don't know. It was just a

12 totally different atmosphere than other events that I went to at that point.

13 Q How did their words make you feel as you were listening to them?

14 A Angry. It made me angry at that point. Scared. I was more scared than

15 anything during that time, because I thought that, as I said, we were shifting from

16 capitalism to socialism, and I was concerned for my son and his wellbeing and his future.

17 Q You described your mood kind of as like happy, you had been drinking on

18 January 5th, but now you just described yourself as getting more angry or scared on

19 January 6th.

20 A Yeah.

21 Q Was there a --

22 A For me, it was more fear-based.

23 Q Okay. Do you recall President Trump saying during his speech, and "If you

24 don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore"?

25 A I wasn't there for that part.

 52

1 Q Okay.

2 A I left about 20 minutes early, as I said. But I saw it. I saw it and I heard

3 about it on social media.

4 Q So how did you know to start walking towards the Capitol?

5 A Brian told us when we were upstairs. I got a text message from him

6 saying -- excuse me -- saying something is going on at the Capitol, we have to go over.

7 Q And you said it wasn't your plan that morning to walk to the Capitol when

8 you first went to the Ellipse, that's correct?

9 A No. I know that the President had delegated that he wanted everybody to

10 march down to -- march down Pennsylvania Avenue. I was there for that part, about

11 the marching part, so we participated in that. And when we left there, was even people

12 already leaving marching and that sort of thing.

13 I know that he told people to go to the Capitol Building, but I never -- I never

14 thought anything was going to happen at the Capitol Building. I thought we were just

15 going to be there and make ourselves known. I didn't know anybody was going to break

16 in.

17 Q But is it fair to say that one of the reasons or maybe it was the reason, you

18 tell us, that you wanted to go to the Capitol is because you heard President Trump say it?

19 A I'm sorry, what was your question?

20 Q Is it fair to say that you wanted to go down to the Capitol, or you thought

21 about going to the Capitol because President Trump mentioned it during his speech?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Okay. You mentioned that folks started leaving and you were aware that

24 people were going to the Capitol. When did you first become aware that there was

25 violence, or that people were breaching the Capitol?

 53

1 A Well, like I said, Brian texted me when we were up in the room and said that,

2 you know, something was going on. We didn't know exactly what at that point in time.

3 I think we all began going on our Facebook pages and other social media pages, looking.

4 And I remember going on, I think it was Facebook, and seeing like a live video,

5 and, you know, walking up to it as I'm watching it saying, Oh, my God, because like I said,

6 the first thing I saw was that person in that attire walking through the fountain and

7 people hanging on the statues, and then just people everywhere all over the building.

8 So it was just really wild to see that.

9 Q Ms. Howell --

10 A So, yeah, we kept approaching because his elderly uncle had run up with the

11 other guys and gotten in the midst of the crowd.

12 Q So is that the reason -- or just answer for me then, you know this is going on

13 at the Capitol. Why do you still go in that direction?

14 A I think it was like a car accident. I wanted to see it, truthfully.

15 Q Was there anyone encouraging you or motivating you to try to go towards

16 the Capitol and enter the Capitol?

17 A At the time just Brian, you know. And then everyone else that I was kind of

18 down there with I was -- I remember texting them saying, are you at the Capitol? And

19 everyone is like, we're going there now, or they are there, so it was kind of just everyone

20 was there.

21 Q As you were walking up to the Capitol, I guess, what was -- I've asked this

22 question a few times -- what was your goal or what were you hoping would be the result

23 of you all going to the Capitol?

24 A As I said before, I thought that a presence or a large presence of people

25 would influence a decision or the outcome of that day. So, I mean, I can only speak for
 54

1 myself. I think other people wanted, again, to make their presence known, and I think

2 we all felt kind of like vindicated at that point, like we know what you're doing, you know,

3 and what you're doing is wrong and do the right thing, and so we went with that

4 mentality.

5 Q Did you believe that President Trump was going to join you all at the Capitol?

6 A That he was going to join us?

7 Q Yes.

8 A I think so, yeah. I remember Brian saying like something along those lines.

9 I don't remember him saying anything -- like President Trump saying anything during the

10 speech that he would be there, but others had indicated to me that he might come down.

11 Q Was that something that excited you, is that fair to say, that the President

12 might join you all at the Capitol?

13 A Yes.

14 Q So walk us through -- and I know we've talked to you both previously about

15 this, so I apologize for asking again because I know it will probably be tough to talk about

16 these details. But tell us about how you actually entered the Capitol, like do you

17 remember what side you went in? What did you do once you got inside? Just describe

18 to us those facts?

19 A Okay. So I told you how I wound up there, and then I approached closer to

20 help Brian try to find his uncle. He was upset at that point that his aunt was going to be

21 mad at him that he allowed his elderly uncle to be in that crowd. And then as we

22 approached, I think it was the -- Heather, correct me if I'm wrong, I was on the east side.

23 It was the side with the fountain, with the water.

24 Q Yeah, that's fine. The side with the fountain and the water, that's fine.

25 That's a fair description. No worries.

 55

1 A Okay. But the scaffolding was there too, and the media scaffolding was on

2 the side that I was on. So, I mean, immediately there was no barriers or anything like

3 that. As I said, people had -- sorry, Heather, go ahead.

4 Ms. Shaner, did you have anything?

5 Ms. Shaner. No.

6 Okay.

7 Ms. Shaner. It was the west side. That's all.

8 Ms. Howell. Oh, it was the west side, okay.

9 Ms. Shaner. I think it was the west side.

10 Ms. Howell. Okay. So it was the west side. Yeah, the scaffolding was there.

11 They were doing construction. I began going up the steps, helping Brian look for his

12 uncle. At that point, there was already tear gas and other, you know, odors and things

13 like that in the air. We kept going up, and then I wound up at the very top. I wound

14 up getting separated from everyone.

15 And I think I was in the crowd maybe an hour or two. I don't know exactly what

16 time I entered inside the Capitol, but it was via a window that had already been broken.

17 So I entered through that window. It was a round window. I went inside. It was a

18 conference room that had already been destroyed.

19 People were ripping down the air flow ventilations because they thought that the

20 Capitol Police or whoever was going to begin putting tear gas through there. So

21 the -- like I said, it was a conference room. And in there, I recorded as a video saying,

22 Who's house? Our house, and that was just really the reiteration of what was being said

23 outside on the steps and everything.

24 And upon entering into that room, I was angry because I was being mauled by

25 men. I couldn't move in the crowd. I was being tear-gassed outside. And, you know,
 56

1 I just thought to myself at the time, like how could they do this to us when we're here to

2 try to defend the Constitution.

3 So that was the reasoning behind me recording that video. And then as soon as I

4 was done recording that video, I exited out the window because there was a guy that was

5 trying to take the hinges off the doors and go into the main part of the Capitol. And I

6 think I called him an idiot, and I walked back out.

7 And then I was out in the crowd, I would say, for another hour or two. And then

8 I remember everyone's phones going off at the same time about the curfew. And then I

9 remember, somehow we all had service at one time, and I remember saying,

10 President Trump said go home, President Trump said go home. And it was at that point

11 we all left.

12 Q So, approximately, how long were you in the Capitol Building when you

13 entered, if you can give an estimate? I know time probably felt --

14 A I'm sorry, I have a terrible cold.

15 Q No worries.

16 A Two minutes or -- under 3 minutes, between 2 and 3 minutes total.

17 Q Okay. And I think you've mentioned it, but I just want to make sure we're

18 clear, why did you eventually leave the Capitol Building?

19 A Because President Trump -- well, number one, the curfew thing; and then

20 number two, President Trump went on TV or I saw it on my phone, but he said to go

21 home, go home in peace, go home.

22 Q But you were aware of the video where he told everyone to go home?

23 A Yes.

24 Q Okay. And that was -- that was why you went -- you're like, okay, it's time

25 for me to leave now?

 57

1 A Uh-huh, yeah.

2 Okay. Did anyone else have any questions before I go into what

3 happened after she left?

4 BY

5 Q Yes. Ms. Howell, I just want to go back a little bit starting at the beginning

6 of the day, I apologize, on January 6th. You said you were seated, I think, you said about

7 three rows behind center stage where Trump was. Was that the VIP section, to your

8 understanding?

9 A Yes. That's where the Senators, Congresspeople, Mike Lindell -- Mike

10 Lindell was seated three rows in front of me, directly in front of me. But, yes, that was

11 VIP.

12 Q Do you recall seeing any Senators that day in the VIP section near you?

13 A I don't recall seeing Doug. His seat was actually supposed to be right next

14 to mine because there was papers on the chairs with people's names on it. But, yes, I

15 saw a couple Senators and a couple -- I saw the Congresswoman from Colorado who is

16 very outspoken and very -- a big advocate for the First and Second Amendment.

17 Q Lauren Boebert?

18 A Yes.

19 Q Okay. You saw Lauren. And I believe -- when you said Doug, who you did

20 not see but you saw his seat, is that Doug Mastriano?

21 A Yes. Yes.

22 Q And do you recall seeing any other elected officials in the VIP area, or seats

23 for them?

24 A I mean, the whole first three rows were -- I just -- I remember -- I remember

25 Mike Lindell and Lauren, mainly. The seat that I sat in was supposed to be Bryson Gray,
 58

1 who was a conservative rapper, who I actually had known too, because I did album

2 artwork for him prior to this. But he wasn't -- he wasn't at the event either.

3 Q Apologies if I missed this, but how exactly did you get into the VIP area?

4 My understanding was you had to have like a pass or a wristband or something like that.

5 A Corey, the person that I drove down, he had a prior VIP pass like for himself,

6 credentials, from Trump events that we did in Pennsylvania, so he put that on. And he

7 also had a vest that said "press" and he had press credentials, so he wore all of that, and

8 somehow infiltrated his way through the Secret Service into thinking he was working that

9 event, and then whoever he knew he was moving up closer and closer into the VIP

10 section.

11 Q And is Corey a member of the press, to your knowledge?

12 A He says that he is. I don't know for sure. I don't think that he is. He

13 doesn't work with anybody in particular. He runs a podcast called Critical Political

14 Thinking.

15 Q And apologies, what -- do you have his last name?

16 A C-a-m-a-o-u-s-o (sic).

17 Q And I believe you mentioned Rudy Giuliani's speech that you heard on

18 January 6th. And at one point during his speech, I believe you said, let's have trial by

19 combat. Do you remember that statement?

20 A I do remember that.

21 Q And what did you take that to mean, if anything, when Mr. Giuliani said

22 that?

23 A Honestly, I thought it -- I remember thinking everyone before that for weeks

24 was talking about it's 1776 again. And that day in particular, I remember being at the

25 Ellipse and seeing the flag from 1776 flying on the White House, so he pointed it out to
 59

1 me while we were waiting in line that morning at the Ellipse. And so when he said that,

2 I think that, to me, it meant, you know, we're going to be in a civil war again.

3 Q I know a theory that was floating around, and maybe even was discussed in

4 the White House per public reporting was that a potential option for President Trump

5 was to declare martial law or use the Insurrection Act in some way because of what he

6 thought happened with the election. Was that a possibility that you had heard of?

7 A Yes. Yes, I heard that. And I know, even kind of going up to January 6th, I

8 think we got stimulus checks right before that. I know a lot of people that I was friends

9 with were using their stimulus money to purchase firearms to prepare for some sort of

10 war that was about to happen. People actually were going to Home Depot buying

11 plywood and getting ready to board up their houses.

12 Q One name we didn't mention or that I failed to mention earlier was General

13 Mike Flynn. Is he someone that you followed on social media?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. And what do you remember, if anything, about what Michael Flynn

16 was saying before January 6th and during the 2020 election?

17 A He was kind of absent I know, until he received that pardon from the

18 President, and then he had a heavy influence in everyone after that. But, yeah, he -- I

19 mean, just to go along with what everyone else was saying, I think he was kind of in line

20 with like Lynne Wood and that sort of thing. And I think he was one of the people that

21 was talking about declaring martial law or invoking different parts of the Constitution to

22 overthrow the election results.

23 Q Something that I've heard from folks is that when they heard

24 President Trump speak, or when he would tweet they were kind of looking for messages

25 or guidance about what to do. And you mentioned that something that
 60

1 President Trump said that day and you said it I think a few times during his speech on

2 January 6th was that, you know, we're going to march to the Capitol.

3 When he said that, you know, and I know you've talked about this a little bit

4 before, was that kind of like a message or you interpreted that as a message to you like,

5 Oh, this is something the President wants us to do, like that's our -- that's kind of our

6 sign?

7 A Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. People were at his every word that day and

8 leading up to that, and, I mean, everyone was looking for secret messages in everything.

9 Q Something that you said too earlier was that the people were talking on

10 January 6th about Vice President Pence and that they were angry about something that

11 he had done. And my understanding is right before President Trump went out to speak,

12 Vice President Pence had released a statement saying that he intended to certify the

13 electoral votes that day. Is that something that you think people were angry about?

14 A Yeah. It was at that moment I think people turned on Vice President

15 Pence, because I remember walking -- as we were walking to the Capitol Building, people

16 in the street were screaming, Pence is a traitor.

17 Q And you mentioned, I think this was when you were in -- either in the Capitol

18 or outside, thinking, like, we know what you're doing. Were you referring to, like, the

19 Members of Congress and what they were -- your understanding of what they were doing

20 inside, counting the electoral votes to certify the count?

21 A No, I don't mean we know what you're doing as in you're counting votes.

22 meant at the time, I thought that they were committing fraud and trying to overturn an

23 election. That's what our mentality was that day.

24 Q And overturn the election against Trump because your belief that he

25 had -- he had actually won the election?

 61

1 A Right. Right.

2 Q Okay. I think you had mentioned for January 5th that you went to some

3 events and you heard some speakers. Was Alex Jones someone that you heard speaking

4 on the 5th?

5 A I think so.

6 Q Did he fall into the category of one of the speakers who was a little bit

7 angrier about what was going on, or what he believed was happening?

8 A Did Alex Jones -- was he like kind of religious?

9 Q He was -- he, my understanding, is part of lnfoWars.

10 A lnfoWars, okay.

11 Q It's a purported news --

12 A Is he a tall guy?

13 Q I'm not sure how tall he is, but he has that website, lnfoWars.

14 A I'm sorry, I don't remember. I definitely remember that name and him

15 being there, yeah. I think so. I know that lnfoWars was more of one of the abrasive

16 outlets that people would watch that would really get people riled up.

17 Q Did you go to lnfoWars for any of your election-related news?

18 A I personally wasn't into it. I was more of a factual type of person.

19 wanted everything presented to me, you know, where's the evidence, where's the

20 evidence. I didn't want conspiracy theories or, you know, subliminal messages.

21 Q One of the other lawyers that was associated with President Trump during

22 the election was John Eastman. Is he someone that you followed during the 2020

23 election?

24 A I don't think so.

25 - that's all for me. Thank you.

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1 BY MS. SHANER:

2 Q I have a question. Annie, on the 5th you went to a couple of block parties.

3 How did you learn about the block parties?

4 A I was invited to them by my friend, Jen Huggs, and she shared it on social

5 media, and I think that's really it. It was Facebook.

6 Q And you went to one in Freedom Plaza?

7 A The event that I went to during the day was at Freedom Plaza.

8 Q At night?

9 A The block party at night. I'm not sure where that was. That was close to

10 the Ellipse though.

11 Q Okay. You said people were drinking. Is that right?

12 A Yes, people drank throughout the day, the whole time I was there, like, I

13 mean, the 5th and the 6th.

14 Q And who provided the alcohol, or did you go in places and purchase it?

15 A People went in places and purchased it.

16 Q And do you have any idea who paid for the parties or sponsored the block

17 parties?

18 A I don't. The one truck or truck that was there, it's recognized, I think, by

19 many. It's the Trump -- it said Trump and it toured country. I know that he toured

20 Pennsylvania a lot, so I was even able to recognize it when I saw it. But he's the one that

21 provides us entertainment, so he had the music going, and he was allowing people to

22 come up on the dolly and on his truck and dance and that sort of thing.

23 Q Okay. Thank you.

24 A Uh-huh.

25 Thank you, Ms. Shaner.

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1 BY
2 Q After leaving the Capitol, like where did you go?

3 A I went back to the hotel. I was in pretty bad shape, actually, just from the

4 crowd and everything that was going on, like I had black eyes and a fat lip, and I was

5 tear-gassed a bunch of times, really the whole crowd was. So somebody walked me

6 back that was actually local to D.C., a nice -- I don't even know the guy's name, but he

7 walked me back to the hotel.

8 So I went back to the hotel where I did about a 20-minute interview with just an

9 independent media company that was based from California and they presented

10 themselves as anti-CCP people. They rid themselves of persecution from the Chinese

11 Government or something like that. So I did an interview with them, and then I went

12 back up to the room. And I remember putting the news on and everyone that I went

13 down there with was already there, and I kind of just laid there and cried and was sad and

14 fell asleep.

15 Q Why were you crying and why were you sad?

16 A Because of what happened. To me it was devastating. I never expected

17 what happened to happen that day. So the way that I saw it at the time was like, this is

18 it. This is the end of our country. There's not going to be a republic anymore. It's

19 going to be a banana republic. We're going to go from capitalism to socialism, and this

20 is it, really.

21 So -- and I was really devastated at the time. I felt like, you know, what did I do

22 wrong? Why was I tear-gassed? That, to me, I took really personally. But I don't

23 know, I just -- I went into a really deep depression after that. So, yeah, I went back that

24 night, fell asleep. I didn't even shower. And then the next morning, woke up,

25 showered, and we left that morning.

 64

1 Q Before we get into kind of your view now, I just want to make -- and, please,

2 don't share anything that you've talked with Ms. Shaner. I just want to just get a current

3 status. After January 6th, you were arrested for entering the Capitol, correct?

4 A I'm sorry, can you repeat that? You cut out.

5 Q After January 6th you were arrested for entering the Capitol, correct?

6 A I wasn't arrested on January 6th, no.

7 Q No, after. After January 6th.

8 A Oh, yes. Yes, I was arrested after.

9 Q And you were eventually charged by the Department of Justice, correct?

10 A Correct, yes.

11 Q You had entered a guilty plea?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And what is the current status of your case, just briefly?

14 A I'm currently on pretrial. I have been for almost a year. My next update,

15 or court date, is March 2nd. I am pleading to a class A misdemeanor that was presented

16 to me by the government. And my understanding, from Ms. Shaner and from the

17 government, is I'll be probably on home confinement for some time and --

18 Ms. Shaner. Just tell him you're going to be sentenced in March.

19 Ms. Howell. Oh, yes, so I'll be sentenced March 2nd.

20 BY

21 Q Perfect. Thank you. So this is something that I'm particularly interested

22 in just from hearing some of your answers throughout today. And I appreciate you kind

23 of -- I know it's difficult to relive certain moments, and so, the committee is very

24 appreciative for you giving our time -- giving your time talking to us about this.

25 You touched on this a little bit earlier, but looking back on January 6th specifically,
 65

1 what are your thoughts now?

2 A That it's one of the saddest days in history for Americans, I think, at least for

3 me it is. I'm -- I thought it would be a day that I would be proud of to be there, and

4 proud to tell my son that I was there and it turned into the opposite, so, you know, I'll be

5 a part of history for the wrong reason now.

6 But I don't know what could have been -- or what could have happened differently

7 that day, because it seemed like to me the perfect storm, the prelude, just the rhetoric

8 that was being shared and COVID happening and the mail-in ballots and everything, and it

9 just made the perfect storm.

10 So I don't know. I wish I never went, I'll tell you that. But the whole thing to

11 me has been a learning experience, but I think that it's -- it's shown me a lot, taught me a

12 lot, matured me a lot, and made me wake up and learn that I was easily manipulated and

13 that sort of thing, and hopefully prevent me from making the same mistakes again.

14 Q So earlier you mentioned that right after the election, you thought the

15 election had been stolen. Is that still your belief here today?

16 A No.

17 Q How has your feelings or thoughts changed, and what led to that change in

18 your conclusion that the election had been stolen?

19 A Well, for one, nothing that I was told really ever happened; number two, I

20 never saw any document produced or any actual evidence of election fraud or voter fraud

21 presented; and number three, I think that once I began to distance myself from primarily

22 watching those networks and from only being around those people and, you know, being

23 in that light, I was able to get more of an unbiased opinion of what was really going on

24 instead of just hearing one side of the story.

25 And I learned that I was very close-minded in thinking to myself, you know, don't
 66

1 read or watch these networks or read these newspapers because the President told us

2 not to, because they're fake, you know what I mean. So I think for me, it was more

3 learning how to think for myself and determine what was real and what was not based on

4 facts instead of what other people said.

5 Q It sounds like your feelings towards President Trump have also changed,

6 where you just mentioned not to do something just because President Trump said so. Is

7 that fair?

8 A Yeah, my feelings towards him have changed. I no longer support him. If

9 he runs again, I'm hiding. I think that it will be bad for our country if he does become a

10 person -- a nominee. I hope they don't let that happen. But it's America, so it may.

11 But I think that it will send our country backwards. I dislike him today because I feel lied

12 to, manipulated, and then I also felt abandoned. I began to grow resentful towards him.

13 Q Ms. Howell, let's break that up a little bit. Ms. Howell, you said you felt like

14 you'd been lied to, manipulated, and abandoned. Lets' -- so how -- like how did

15 President Trump lie to you?

16 A Just the rhetoric about the fake news and the election being fraudulent and

17 being stolen. Also, too, his advisers, Kurt, everyone, they were promising me positions

18 and other people positions in the White House. They were telling us that, you know,

19 you're not getting paid right now, but I promise, I promise, I promise, it'll be worth it for

20 you. You know, so I just feel like I was robbed of my time, which is, you know, one thing

21 in life that you can't ever get back that I took away from my son to help him.

22 And I feel abandoned in a sense that he's out there campaigning for a potential

23 run in 2024, but there's people like me who don't have a criminal record, who never did

24 anything like this in their life, who genuinely, wholeheartedly believed him and supported

25 him.
 67

1 And then, you know, he's raising money for a possible run, but, you know, there's

2 people like me that have lost everything as a result of supporting him and being there and

3 making decisions that we did that day, not that it is his fault, but obviously, you know, he

4 influenced it. So --

5 Q How do you think he influenced it?

6 A I'm sorry?

7 Q How do you think he influenced it for you personally?

8 A In my decision to be there that day, I mean, just over and over and over

9 again saying, you know, the news is lying to you, the government is lying to you, Nancy

10 Pelosi, you know, just the everyday rhetoric, just things being drilled inside our heads

11 over and over and over again on these outlets and on social media. And, you know, you

12 hear a lie 100 times, you're going to start to believe it.

13 Q Has your experience on January 6th -- and, again, I'm getting philosophical,

14 again, so I apologize -- has it even impacted the way you view like this country?

15 A Has it impacted the way that I see the country?

16 Q Yes.

17 A I think that it's made our country stronger personally. I think that -- I don't

18 think that D.C. or our country is going to allow something like that to happen again.

19 think that they're going to heed the warnings next time. But I also think that, as long as

20 we keep going the way that we're going with this, and people are remorseful and learn

21 from this day, that we're not going to repeat the same mistakes.

22 Q Are you remorseful here today?

23 A I'm sorry?

24 Q Are you remorseful here today?

25 A Am I remorseful?
 68

1 Q Yes.

2 A Absolutely. Yeah, it's one of the biggest regrets of my life.

3 Q And you kind of touched on it, what do you think could be done differently

4 as a country to prevent another January 6th from happening?

5 A What do I think could have been done differently? My understanding is

6 there was warnings that the DHS and that the FBI received, and those weren't taken

7 100 percent seriously. I think that, you know, next time that should be taken more

8 seriously.

9 And I think that without being censored too much, I mentioned this to the

10 government, there's groups on Facebook and, you know, the Oath Keepers, Proud Boys,

11 those things, those groups, they should have been watched more closely. I think that

12 they were watching them, but they were watching people like me too. And I

13 understand that, but I think that more eyes should have been on, you know, the founders

14 of those groups, and the main parts of those groups rather than everyone in the

15 spectrum, you know what I mean?

16 Q What responsibility do you think our country's leaders should show to

17 prevent another January 6th from happening?

18 A What was the question? I'm sorry.

19 Q How can our leaders, our country's leaders, prevent another January 6th

20 from happening?

21 A I think that by keeping it -- not forgetting it, you know, present it, don't hide

22 it, teach our children about what happened that day. I also think that in the future, we

23 should take our electorate -- or who we elect into office more seriously. The people

24 that go and conduct themselves like a child and in an unprofessional manner I don't think

25 should be leaders of our country. And I'm not sure if we should change the criteria for
 69

1 what you should need to do or what pre qualifications you should have to be President of

2 the United States, but I don't know.

3 In all of this, I feel that everything does happen for a reason, and I feel that, you

4 know, more good will come of this than bad. But I just think that the number one thing,

5 or component to take from this is not to let history repeat itself, not to hide what

6 happened, and to keep talking about it and teaching our children about what happened

7 that day.

8 Does any of the other counsel or - h a v e any other

9 questions for Ms. Howell?

10 BY
11 Q I have a few questions. Ms. Howell, you mentioned that you understood

12 that there might have been warnings to DHS and FBI. Were those warnings concerning

13 domestic violence extremist groups like the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys?

14 A It's my understanding they received -- yeah, they received warnings from,

15 I'm not sure what the source was, but that right-side militia or right-side extremist

16 groups, you know, may have had something planned at the Capitol on January 6th.

17 Q And you also mentioned that you feel like we're in a -- the country is in a

18 better position because we'll heed the warnings. Besides, you know, potential warnings

19 to DHS and FBI and maybe taking those warnings more seriously, were there other

20 warnings that you think the United States, the government, whoever, was in a position

21 maybe to ask that they missed?

22 A Well, I think that the Capitol should have had better security that day, too,

23 you know, a better wall around it, too, to protect our Congress, you know, Congressmen

24 and Senators and stuff and the Vice President.

25 I don't know what the answer is. I really don't. I don't know what could've
 70

1 prevented it. But I feel like there was a lot of warning signs, and, you know, personally

2 I'm not trained in this sort of thing, but I feel like, you know, by the President going on

3 social media saying it's going to be wild, that should have been taken seriously, and that

4 more either law enforcement, the National Guard, whoever, you know, be called in, but

5 exactly what they did for the inauguration I think should've been done on January 6th.

6 Q And you referenced that you were promised a position in the White House a

7 bit ago. Can you explain more about that?

8 A So Kurt, who I previously mentioned, him and there was two other

9 gentlemen, one was named Elmo, who grew up with Eric, and then there was another guy

10 that used to work for DHS, or did work for DHS, and I forget his name, but I think you guys

11 have his information from our last interview or what was said last interview.

12 But, you know, in doing these events, you know, setting up and doing this and

13 marketing and door knocking and doing all these extra things that I was doing, and I'm

14 seeing how dedicated and committed I was, Kurt would make reference to Eric and say

15 things like, you know, we're going to get you and your hard work is not going to be

16 forgotten and that sort of thing.

17 So there was a couple of us that were promised positions in the White House, I'm

18 not sure doing what, but just, you know, in Trump's White House, or administration, or

19 whatever, for being loyal and for working hard. And I wasn't the only one locally that

20 was promised that or told that, but we were always reassured that, you know, our hard

21 work would not be forgotten and that it would pay off for us.

22 Q And was that also in connection with the work you were doing with

23 collecting affidavits?

24 A Yes.

25 Q And when you say Eric, just to clarify, is that Eric Trump?
 71

1 A Yes, Eric Trump.

2 Q Okay. You also mentioned something about a perfect storm, and I just

3 want to unpack that, that you thought January 6th was a -- what happened on

4 January 6th was a perfect storm. So you mentioned rhetoric. Tell me what you mean

5 by rhetoric?

6 A I mean, our President, for 4-plus years, was talking about fake news and the

7 news is lying to you and saying things like that. Then COVID happened. And so, when

8 COVID happened people were forced in their homes, of course, people were scared.

9 And then, I think, that a lot of people suffered a financial loss and not only that people

10 were suffering emotionally, physically, financially.

11 So all of that combined, on top of, you know, a very diabolical election period, I

12 mean, it was very -- I thought the 2016 election was bad with Hillary Clinton, but this was

13 way -- much worse, very -- the animosity, I mean, nobody could really get along. If you

14 were out in public wearing a Trump shirt or a Biden shirt, you know, you were asking to

15 get into a fight pretty much.

16 So I just think that with COVID, the mail-in ballots, and people being fearful of

17 their futures because of what happened, because of COVID and because of the pandemic

18 and everything, that it created the right atmosphere for something like this to occur

19 because of people's psyches and where they were at mentally.

20 Q So for mail-in ballots, I'm aware like in Pennsylvania there were, I think,

21 some laws, like there was a law that was passed that allowed more voters, or I think

22 everyone to vote, I think it's without an excuse, from home. Is that what you're

23 referring to, like kind of this change in law and this was the first election it was going to

24 be implemented?

25 A Yeah. And what's interesting in Pennsylvania that a lot of people were

 72

1 skeptical about was that our Governor enacted that in 2016. We weren't sure why that

2 was enacted in 2016 because that was way before COVID. So that was a big part of the

3 speculation was about, is our Governor involved, you know, and so people were very

4 concerned about that.

5 But, yeah, so -- yeah. And in my experience, like a lot of the calls I got were

6 people that were saving 10, 15 mail-in ballots. And the other thing that was happening

7 too in Pennsylvania was they were putting a donkey or an elephant on the ballots, which

8 is supposed to be, you know -- you're supposed to have anonymity. You're not

9 supposed to know whether the person is a registered Republican or Democrat. So they

10 were putting that right on the envelope, the donkey or the elephant.

11 Q Is that something that you saw or something that was reported through like

12 the hotline or --

13 A I personally saw it, and I also -- it was also reported a lot.

14 Q So --

15 A And the other thing that was occurring in Pennsylvania, as far as that goes,

16 was when people were going to vote they were being asked, are you Republican, are you

17 a Democrat?

18 Q Were you asked on Election Day --

19 A 1 personally --

20 Q -- your status?

21 A I personally did not have any issues on Election Day. I walked right in.

22 was actually very happy because they asked for my ID.

23 Q So, I mean, I guess, is it fair to say you thought that the 2020 election there

24 was a lot of partisanship and then maybe misinformation, disinformation, confusion

25 about election rules and what was going on?

 73

1 A Yes. Yes. A lot of the election laws had changed that year or this year or

2 leading up to this, and so, I think a lot of people were confused and weren't informed of

3 the new laws.

4 Q And I think we talked about this earlier, but it seemed like a lot of people

5 were maybe taking their news from social media, from the internet, different sources,

6 maybe not always reliable but it's out there?

7 A Yes.

8 Q That's it for me. Thank you so much, Ms. Howell.

9 A Thank you.

10 BY
11 Q Ms. Howell, we covered a lot of topics here today. Is there anything that

12 we missed that you think is important for us to know?

13 A I don't think so.

14 Q Well, I just want to say, thank you for taking time out of your day, time

15 previously to speak with us about your experiences, both in Pennsylvania and traveling to

16 Washington, D.C. on January 6th.

17 I know this has been a difficult time for you over the past year, but by you sitting

18 with us and giving us testimony, it's what allows us to actually understand what

19 happened on that day, and then to be able to make recommendations to the committee

20 so we can prevent another January 6th from happening again. So I just want to say

21 thank you, and we really appreciate it.

22 A I appreciate you guys. Thank you for the opportunity, too.

23 And thank you, Ms. Shaner.

24 Ms. Shaner. Thank you.

25 And with that, we'll go off the record.

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1 [Whereupon, at 2:59 p.m., the interview was concluded.]

 75

1 Certificate of Deponent/Interviewee

4 I have read the foregoing _ _ pages, which contain the correct transcript of the

5 answers made by me to the questions therein recorded.

10 Witness Name

11

12

13

14 Date

15