ASCEND Module 7

Interview with Hurriya Burney Transcript

Hi, I'm Hurriya Burney. I'm [the] Vice President Commercial Banking with the Royal
Bank of Canada and I'm also an immigrant from Pakistan.

Question 1: What advice would you give to a newcomer on how to process and act
on feedback they receive at work?
Feedback is absolutely extremely important because it helps you grow professionally.
And it also makes you understand how you're doing in the workplace, which ultimately
drives your future performance and your future career growth. It is instinctive for
human beings to get defensive when we hear negative feedback. So sometimes we
may be in a position where we don't proactively ask for feedback because we're
scared of what we might hear. I would highly encourage you, you know, don't wait to
get feedback. Actually go and ask for it. And it is important to kind of, you know,
make it clear that you're looking for feedback in order to continue to grow and
develop your skills and capabilities and to be the right fit when future opportunities
come up. When you do receive feedback, it's important to kind of take both the
positive and the negative feedback and process both of them together. Another
instinct we have as human beings really is to take the negative feedback and focus on
that and obsess over the negative feedback and just throw all the positive out of the
window. Don't do that. You know, if somebody is giving you a balanced viewpoint, it's
just as important to kind of embrace the strengths that you bring to the table as well
as to think about "Okay, here are some areas that I need to work on."

Question 2: What ways of providing feedback to your staff and colleagues have you
found to work well?
That's a great question. I am going to refer to a very popular business book called the
"Radical Candor" by Kim Scott. You know, we talk about a lot in the business
community, certainly at my organization. And the idea behind radical candor is giving
feedback from a place of caring. So giving feedback that's genuine, honest, authentic,
but doing it from a place of caring. And we really use and adopt that idea because the
intent about it is we're giving feedback because we care about the individual's future
success. So it's not about telling somebody, all the things that they're doing wrong, it's
really not about that. It's about sharing in a very kind of, you know, balanced fashion.
Feedback that is going to help the person grow. And it's important to remember that
they may not be aware of it either, right? So if somebody kind of made a mistake or
done something, maybe that wasn't received, well, they may not necessarily be aware
of it. And as a caring manager, it is important for you to share, right? I mean, if I'm
invested in somebody's career as a leader, and I know that there's some behaviors or
activities that they're doing that are potentially going to get in their way. I want to be
able to share it with them and actually, I won't be a very good manager if I didn't. It
also doesn't have to be like a big thing, it could be five minutes of feedback. As long
as it's ongoing, it's timely. And it's something that person can implement and take
action on right away. It doesn't have to be a whole hour long conversation, it could be
five minutes in the hallway. The final piece I'll say is, you know, we keep thinking
about feedback as negative. It's just as important to give positive feedback, right. And
I think sometimes as managers, you know, we might not say something if the person is
doing a great job, because there's nothing to fix. They're doing a great job. It's more
like "Keep doing what you're doing." But one of the things I found in, you know, my
experience in leadership is that people want to hear positive feedback. People want
to know they're doing a good job, and we can't assume that they know. So as leaders,
it's also important to make sure that we're acknowledging the good things employees
are doing instead of just giving them constructive feedback.

Question 3: What are some essential leadership skills that everyone can benefit
from developing?
There's many different ways of demonstrating leadership traits. It's not really about
managing people. Yes, that's one part of it. But you don't have to be a people
manager in order to be a leader. When I think about leadership traits, I think about
soft skills, right? Ultimately, leadership is really about connectivity. It's about
communication skills. It's about your ability to impact influence and inspire others to
do a great job. And you don't have to be a leader, you could be a coach, you could be
a mentor, you could be a great team player in the workplace. You could be someone
who organizes different employees around a cause. All of that is leadership. Like, it
could be throwing a birthday party for somebody or somebody gets engaged, throwing
a shower for them, you know. All of those things, demonstrate that you are somebody
who can take charge, who's a team player, and who knows how to mobilize people.
And ultimately, that's what leadership is all about.

Question 4: What methods do you use to respond to and resolve a workplace

conflict?
You know, the first step when it comes to resolving workplace conflict is to take
emotion out of the equation. That's the first step. And don't get personal. It's really
not about people. It's not about character traits that people bring to the table. It's
really about the problem at hand, right? So think about the problem, don't get down
to the level of personalizing the issue to the people. Being fair and unbiased is
extremely important. So if I've got two people that, you know, potentially are not
getting along, for whatever reason, it's important for me to step in and first of all,
take a totally balanced approach, unbiased, hear both sides out, right, and really
understand kind of where they're coming from. You know, sometimes when emotions
are running high, it's important for you as a leader to be the voice of reason to calm
everyone down, right and really bring the matter to what's at stake ultimately. At my
company, we really talk a lot about kind of our shared values, our organizational
values, our shared mission, our shared collective ambition as we call it. And I always
come back to that, right? So when two people have different views about what should
be done in a given situation, I always say the guiding light should be the core
organizational values that all of us have to adhere to. And ultimately that's the
decision I'm going to take. So I'll give you an example. You know, one of our values is
providing exceptional client experiences. And it really is about the client at the end
of the day. So whenever there's a conflict, that's the first thing I'm going to think
about, okay, this person has a different view, and you've got this person here who has
a different view, what's in the best interest of what we're here to do, right? You
know, what's in the best interest of our clients and our communities.

Question 5: What tips would you give to a newcomer who is struggling to achieve
their goals?
Patience and perseverance and persistence always win out. I think the first thing as a
newcomer is, you know, maybe just some thinking about the fact that it takes time to
establish yourself, right. So you know, especially if you're coming from a different
country, and you've been extremely successful in your home country, and you're
coming here, and now on some level, maybe you need to start from scratch, it's
important to have reasonable expectations. Like it's [not physically] possible for you
to, you know, be in the same position that you were in on day one. Now, it's not just
the same career position, it's also your standing in the community, your networks, all
of that, right. I think it's important to continue doing the activities, right. So continue
doing what you need to do to get closer to your goals. And it takes time, ultimately,
to get there and you need to make sure you have that patience, right? If you keep
doing it every single day, if you keep putting yourself out there, if you keep kind of
building your network, if you keep, you know, meeting people within your industry,
those doors are going to open when you least expect them to.

Question 6: What are the best ways to track your career progression?
I think the best thing to do really is to first of all have a career plan, right and it's
extremely important to have that. And that doesn't mean you're boxing yourself into
well these are the jobs I'm going to do. And this is the exact month I'm going to do
that job. And this is when I'm going to get promoted. That's an exercise in futility. It's
important to have like an ultimate North Star, where you're trying to get to right and
like, what's your ultimate goal. Or it could even be a 5 year goal or a 10 year goal,
right? That's your big picture goals, and then kind of work backwards from there,
right? And think about, okay, so if I want to get to point B, then what are all the steps
that I need to take to get from point A to point B? So it's important to have that plan
but the second piece, it's important to communicate that plan [to] the right sponsors
and mentors and leaders at your organization, right. Because it's all well and good for
you to have a plan, but you need people along for the journey that are going to
advocate for you and speak up for you so you can achieve that plan. And it's not just
about you know, promotions. It's really about creating those developmental
opportunities right for you, and you have an investment in that as well, right. So when
you have stretch projects, you need to raise your hand and proactively ask for it. And
I find a lot of new immigrants that I mentor and coach sometimes struggle with that
because you know, it's again cultural differences, you kind of feel "Well, they'll come
to me if they want me to do it." Don't assume, because you know that person sitting
next to you who's probably not as qualified, has already raised their hand. And you're
going to miss out because as a leader, now I'm on the other side of the table, right? So
I might think I'm busy. I might assume that if, you know, Krista hasn't raised her hand,
she's not interested in the project. I might just assume that whereas I have Barry over
here who's really enthusiastically asking for it. So even though I think Krista might do
a better job, you know, the enthusiasm that Barry's showing for the project makes me
think he might be the right candidate because he's going to be more invested. So it is
important for you to proactively ask for things because it tells the organization that
you're invested, you're interested and you're going to take time and you're going to
put in the work.

Question 7: How can newcomers consistently develop their skill set and careers?
You know, I think I've mentioned this before, I think soft skills are ultimately the most
important thing, right? So when you think about a Canadian workplace, what are the
core skills that are absolutely in demand. Doesn't matter what industry you work in,
doesn't matter what you do for a living if you're a salesperson or a technical person,
and that would be you know, teamwork is a big part of it. Right? Collaboration and
teamwork is something that is woven into the fabric of our society. [That] is: How do
you work with people? How do you collaborate? How do you kind of work in situations
where you have to reach decisions in a consensus? You know, you've got shared
deadlines, so being able to demonstrate that you can do that is really important. I
would also say that, you know, building connections, interpersonal skills, again,
related to what I mentioned around collaboration and teamwork, again, are
extremely important. That's how you grow. But ultimately, what's most important is
that you have a learning mindset, right? So if you're coming in with a fixed mindset
and thinking, "Okay, these are my skills, and this is what I know. And this is what I
don't know." Ultimately you're going to trip up. Doesn't matter what industry you're in,
the world is changing extremely fast. And certainly in my industry, in financial
services, we see that. There's a lot of transformation happening with the
technological change with, you know, digital transformation. There's so much and the
biggest change that we're going to see and the biggest skill that we're going to see in
the future is adaptability. And that's true whether you're an immigrant or you're like a
local Canadian, it really doesn't matter. The one skill that you will need in the future
place of work is going to be adaptability.

Our thanks to Hurriya Burney for sharing her thoughts with us.